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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    4,779

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    If I was renting and really wanted 3 phase, I would look at a 3 phase generator.

    Here's the first one I found on eBay...
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-8kVA-P...2400:rk:1:pf:0

    It's not dead money spent as you can always take it with you.

    Edit: Ignor that pissy little petrol genset, there are some good diesel gensets on ebay for good prices. Here's a nice 3 phase diesel for a very reasonable price.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gensafe-...44c-:rk:9:pf:0

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    If I was renting and really wanted 3 phase, I would look at a 3 phase generator.

    Here's the first one I found on eBay...
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-8kVA-P...2400:rk:1:pf:0

    It's not dead money spent as you can always take it with you.

    Edit: Ignor that pissy little petrol genset, there are some good diesel gensets on ebay for good prices. Here's a nice 3 phase diesel for a very reasonable price.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gensafe-...44c-:rk:9:pf:0

    Simon
    Mate of mine bought one of those Chinese 3 phase diesel gensets. Went through a few voltage regulators and IIRC there were some 'issues' with heavy draw on unbalanced single phase loads. Probably not an issue if you're actually running a 3 phase motor.

    Anyway the reports didn't give me a warm glow WRT the QA.

    Incidentally my big UPS is an APC unit similar to the one referred to up-thread. One day I really must take a closer look and see if I can get it running. Feeding it 3 phase isn't an issue, just not sure it's worth any significant hassle as I already have a couple of standby gensets for when the power fails.

    PDW

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

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    Often you will find that the cheap generators use engines that are not powerful enough to spin the generator to get the rated kva. So for instance a genset might have an 8 kva generator but only have a 12 hp engine, a 12 hp engine will only get you about 5 kva if you are lucky.
    I dont know if it still is the same but for gensets up to 20 kva the rough formula to work out a generator/engine combination was kva x 2.5 = hp required.

    shed

    PS.....that.formula is for petrol engines and may not apply to diesel engines as they should have more torque at their rated hp

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

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    Yea, I have a Mitsubishi genset and it's a 3.5Kva and powered by a 12 HP petrol engine. It cost us about $2200 about 15 years ago. It's hardly done any work but it's next to worthless now as you can buy the cheapie chinese things for new at less than 1/4 the price.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Yea, I have a Mitsubishi genset and it's a 3.5Kva and powered by a 12 HP petrol engine. It cost us about $2200 about 15 years ago. It's hardly done any work but it's next to worthless now as you can buy the cheapie chinese things for new at less than 1/4 the price.

    Simon
    I recently bought a 3.6kVa genset at Aldi. It definitely has more grunt than my Yamaha 2.8 kVa unit. Both are petrol engined inverter generators.

    The Aldi unit was $400 and I got a runout deal on their air compressor - $85 IIRC. Both are up my NSW country block now. They're hardly worth stealing )

    PDW

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld
    Posts
    401

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    Is there 3 phase to the pole outside your house ?
    What amp draw do you think you will end up needing ?
    What machines do you plan to run on them ?

    Mains 3 phase will generally be the most reliable, easiest to use and worry free. Totally understand with you being in a rental being reluctant to get it installed. Consider things like how long do you plan on being there for? is it a high demand area? Might be worthwhile talking to the agent / owner as they may be willing to have it installed or share the costs if your planning to be there for a while especially if it's not a high demand area so they want to keep you as a tenant.
    I got 3 phase installed to my place a couple years back, house was originally built in the 80's and the fusebox was not big enough to be reused so had to be removed and replaced as part of the upgrade to 3 phase. This added to the cost but if you have 3 phase to the pole outside the house (and the grid is not over burdened already) and the fusebox is fairly new and big enough to just have the meter replaced you could possibly have 3 phase fitted for around 2k. From memory I think the meter is about $850, Ergon may charge to run the new lines, will need a lecky to run new feed lines from the connection point to the fuse box then of course whatever you need to do beyond there. Mine cost more but as part of my install I replaced the main fuse box, replaced the sub board in the shed, have buried 3 phase lines running to the shed which is maybe 40m from the fusebox, have several 3 phase outlets, ect ect. If you were wanting to minimize non removable infrastructure I can't see any reason why you couldn't have just an outlet in the fuse box and a 3 phase extension lead.

    Watching a heap of the American's where 3 phase is not readily available, most of them seem to use rotary phase converters. There are Australian versions available
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFkqVMZBEOY
    http://www.phasechanger.com.au/
    One of our members even did a DIY one a couple months back
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGKZ51zg0X8
    No idea on costs but guessing probably a couple grand ?
    If there was not 3 phase to the pole this is probably the option I would be looking into, would be surprised if you didn't need a dedicated circuit to run one of these tho if not hard wired as highly doubt even a 15a single phase GPO would be enough. So there would be additional costs in involved with running that line which would stay at the property.

    One thing to keep in mind is not all power is created equal, so mains 3 phase vs rotary phase converter vs generator vs solar array will not all be the same. I know of instances where tools / welders / ect were all blown up running on a generator as it's power wasn't clean enough and caused issues. If your running a manual machine probably not too bad but if CNC would be a big consideration

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSpoon View Post
    I got 3 phase installed to my place a couple years back
    You wouldn't happen to know your supply charge before and after would you?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld
    Posts
    401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    You wouldn't happen to know your supply charge before and after would you?
    To be honest I didn't really pay any attention to any change at the time. I heard rumors that 3 phase supply was meant to be more expensive but my power bills didn't seem out of the ordinary so never bothered to check.

    Just checked my power bill vs another property that only has single phase supply and the supply charge is the same. The cents per kwh is like .8 of a cent more expensive here however slightly different billing period as here is billed quarterly I think and the other property is monthly. Certainly not anything that would put me off getting 3 phase through fear of a higher supply charge.
    The only time I actually noticed a change in my power bill is when I replaced an old big upright fridge & freezer with new units and my bill dropped a reasonable amount.

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