Thread: Thinking about milling machines

Originally Posted by phaser

The weight of 3 tonnes that brings up another question : the shed concrete thickness ?

Honestly 3 tonnes on a standard shed floor should be ok, it's the moving the machine.

Originally Posted by phaser

Oh crikey....That could be a problem then. I figured I might be able to talk the seller into delivery but we are thinking of moving house within the next 6 months, I assume that would mean a huge cost to get it moved again.
And the taper,...I did see some collet chucks etc, flamin' big and not morse either.

You really don't want Morse so that's a plus.

30 taper is OK, 40 taper is excellent, 50 taper and I'd be getting concerned about the tooling cost.

There's a huge amount of 40 taper tooling out there because it's the default size for all the small to mid sized CNC mills and they may well have a carosel loaded with up to 48 tools. I have 2 40 taper mills and one horizontal boring mill that uses 40 taper Flash Change tooling that also fits the other spindles. I far, far prefer this to R8 or any Morse taper.

PDW

Regarding moving it, if you're looking at multiple moves I'd be considering keeping it mobile when you got it home. Fabricate a heavy pallet/stand that you could get a pallet jack under (you can buy 2500kg pallet jacks for ~$250 or probably hire one for a day). My mill (around 1000kg) is bolted to a frame consisting of a couple of bits of 150x75 UB fore/aft with heavy channel running between and I use a pallet jack if I need to move it.
Once set up like that you could likely get away with transporting it using a small tilt tray truck as it could be winched on/off the tray. Would definitely need to be done carefully but may be a lot cheaper than multiple moves with crane trucks etc.
I haven't personally used a tilt tray for machinery moving, but the last crane truck price I got was $175/hr, with 4hr minimum, whereas I paid $160 total a few months back to have a car picked up and dropped off about 60km away.

Out of interest, what would be a reasonable price to pay for a mill like that one?

Steve

I have a couple of companies in inner Melbourne which are $100 an hour for 3tonne but they aren't riggers so have to be watched carefully. I find arranging transport to be a pita but worth it every time. Like Steve said pallet jacks are cheap and very effective.

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

Regarding moving it, if you're looking at multiple moves I'd be considering keeping it mobile when you got it home. Fabricate a heavy pallet/stand that you could get a pallet jack under (you can buy 2500kg pallet jacks for ~$250 or probably hire one for a day). My mill (around 1000kg) is bolted to a frame consisting of a couple of bits of 150x75 UB fore/aft with heavy channel running between and I use a pallet jack if I need to move it.
Once set up like that you could likely get away with transporting it using a small tilt tray truck as it could be winched on/off the tray. Would definitely need to be done carefully but may be a lot cheaper than multiple moves with crane trucks etc.
I haven't personally used a tilt tray for machinery moving, but the last crane truck price I got was $175/hr, with 4hr minimum, whereas I paid $160 total a few months back to have a car picked up and dropped off about 60km away.

Out of interest, what would be a reasonable price to pay for a mill like that one?

Steve

No way I'd move a mill like that on a tilt tray truck. It's pretty top-heavy and would most likely fall over while being winched up the ramp unless you were very, very careful or made a quite wide, stable base. Crane truck or forklift.

Moving around on a smooth concrete slab with pallet jack, no worries. I do that quite a lot with various of my machines.

PDW

I have seen bed mills moved with wooden cribbing built up under each end of the table on a big pallet to stop any tipping, but still moved on a flat bed, I'd be reluctant to put it on a tilt but it's doable.

Be aware that in my experience cheaping out on machinery moving NEVER works out in your favour, save yourself sweating bullets the whole time and just do it right.

So for a VFD are you meaning a thing like this ? (prob bigger though)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5KW-2H...item440d63572e

Originally Posted by caskwarrior

Be aware that in my experience cheaping out on machinery moving NEVER works out in your favour, save yourself sweating bullets the whole time and just do it right.

This.

If you can't afford to do it correctly, don't do it at all. Broken machinery is at least saleable for scrap. Broken people, not so much.

I'm in the process of moving a 7.5 tonne boat out of my shed. What with earthworks on the driveway, crane and low loader hire, it'll run into 5 figures. That's what it costs to do it professionally. I have enough friends and a lot of us are familiar with rigging heavy stuff. That means we also know when the DIY approach is going to lead to tears.

PDW

Originally Posted by phaser

So for a VFD are you meaning a thing like this ? (prob bigger though)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5KW-2H...item440d63572e

That's them, you would probably need this 5hp one, if it's a larger motor you would be looking at $380 for a 7hp one, plus a dedicated electrical circuit.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F263931130017

I think it would be around 5hp or less machine, if it was larger you could replace the motor with a 5hp or less motor as it's only getting used in a home shop. This will allow it to be used in a 10/15 amp power point.

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

... Fabricate a heavy pallet/stand that you could get a pallet jack under...

Yep.
P1010261 (Medium).JPG
Also means you can widen the base slightly and make things more stable. This mill (around 1.5t) was moved on a tailgate truck, moving it on and off with a pallet jack, although I did have dummy hard feet fitted rather than the rubber anti-vibration/ leveling versions seen in the photo. The worst thing about a tail gate truck is that the tailgate has a slope to it when on the ground, so the machine needs to be under firm control when being put on/ taken off. Don't assume that the driver knows anything about moving machines, as most of the time they are moving (relatively) light pallets that are compact with no tendency to be top heavy. If in doubt get a rigging company in. They will appreciate the pallet jack base just as much, but at least will tie things down correctly
One day I'd like to lift the lathe up with a similar stand as if nothing else a bit of extra height is nicer on the lower back if you are taller.

Michael

Originally Posted by PDW

I *think* at least one of the Arboga models did as well.

Never seen a Taiwanese/Chinese drill/mill fitted (by the factory) with one though.

Got to keep in mind that there are some potential advantages in being able to rotate the head around the column. Few, but some.

PDW

Thanks for the info about Arboga mill.
On an Emco FB-2, it is still possible to swing the round column if required, as it is clamped at the base.
The milling head and column all move together.

Originally Posted by nadroj

Thanks for the info about Arboga mill.
On an Emco FB-2, it is still possible to swing the round column if required, as it is clamped at the base.
The milling head and column all move together.

That's true, I'd forgotten that. I think there's even a degree ring on mine.

It's a nice little lightweight mill really. I'd be happier if it had a higher top spindle speed but - might address that one of these days. My main intent is for milling plastics & aluminium so the lack of power isn't of great significance but the spindle speed is a bit annoying.

PDW

Just remember with big mills you often see on ebay or gumtree.

For sale: Large milling machine, unused since I acquired it, had dreams of converting to single phase but it never happened, large weighs three tonnes. Shifting house and easier to sell it then move it to the next place.

Originally Posted by PDW

No way I'd move a mill like that on a tilt tray truck. It's pretty top-heavy and would most likely fall over while being winched up the ramp

Moved a 3+ ton Cincinnati mill on a tilt tray, admitted it was fork lifted on but to get it off was just slid off the back of the truck onto some heavy timbers on the ground. If there was no forklift on site the driver was confident he could winch it up without issue. Driver chained it down and was fine for the 200+ km trip home.

Funnily enough was talking to the boys in the shop next door when I picked up the Mill and they had a crane truck nearly drop a lathe in transit as it was just sat on the bed of the truck without timbers or anything underneath and metal on metal was quite slippery and it tried to jump off around the first corner.

Now don't get my wrong, there are some tilt tray drivers I wouldn't trust to move a kids trike but there are also some that do a heap of machinery moves and will get it done for a fraction of the price of a crane truck. If you can get it strapped down to a pallet and have a pallet jack it's really a very simple task unloading and moving it.

After moving the big Cincinnati and a 900ish kg Bridgeport clone I'd highly recommend a Bridgeport clone if you need to move it in the future or are renting.
Yes you can run a 3 phase motor on single phase with a VFD, I have a 3hp VFD that wants 21 amps I think it is, starting to hit the limit of a 15a single phase point there. A 5hp one is going to need it's own dedicated feed. Adding dedicated high amp circuits can open up a can of worms depending on what the rest of the circuits are like.

As others have mentioned tooling is also a big thing to be mindful of, I kinda wish mine was a 40 taper not a 50 taper because 50 is bigger and more rigid but 40 taper is just everywhere.

Originally Posted by MasterSpoon

As others have mentioned tooling is also a big thing to be mindful of, I kinda wish mine was a 40 taper not a 50 taper because 50 is bigger and more rigid but 40 taper is just everywhere.

You can get 50 to 40 adaptors you know. I've got a couple of 40 to 30 adaptors floating about the place that came with a bunch of tooling for one of my mills.

PDW