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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Mid North Coast NSW
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    Default Thinking about milling machines

    Hoping to talk the misses into a milling machine.
    Is this type any good ? ... with its tubular upright.
    https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M121

  2. #2
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    Jun 2007
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    sydney ( st marys )
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    I myself would have a gear drive, no belt slip if under a heavy cut,no need to change belt position for speed change ( although you have only 6 speed choices ) no problem with having the head low and not being able to raise the belt cover for speed changes.

    The machine as is should perform to its capabilities.

    Some people don't like the round column,myself I don't find it a problem.

    Most will tell you to get a dovetail column, if you search on this forum you will find fixes that people have made to their dovetail type, not sure how many fixes have been written about the round column other than you need to locate your work piece if you move the head, in most cases with correct planning most jobs can be performed without having to raise the head once started.

    The main thing is for you to know what work you will be doing and purchase the appropriate machine tool.

    Most will also tell you that whatever you purchase it won't be big enough for everything,unfortunately there is no real way for the average backyarder to overcome this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    56
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    Default

    The round column mills are a heavy machine, if you haven't seen one close up you will be surprised at there size.
    In the pictures it makes them look like a large drill press.

    A fellow I know is 65, he's a machinist by trade still and has a round column mill, not much he can't do with it.
    Yes I agree the square dovetailed mills are better, but if your budget doesn't stretch that far, go the round column mill, way better than the smaller square column machines.

    If you look them up people have put laser pointers on them with a line drawn on the shed wall the other side of the shed, to locate the head back to the same position when raising or lowering it.

    Also don't forget second hand round or square column mills, there around and usually come with tooling and accessories for a lot less money.
    People buy them and either loose interest of move up to a bigger machine.
    I've watched the new Chinese machinery climb in price, my HM52 was $4200 in 2006 which is now around $6500, I wouldn't buy one for that price, I'd look for second hand.

    All the best with your decision, you will love a mill and there capabilities, and you have the green light from the other half, that's a big bonus, lol
    Using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
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    Default

    Thanks for the comments so far.
    That laser trick is a good idea.
    One other question I should ask : Will I regret not buying a machine with a tilting head ?
    I can't think of a reason where they'd be any more useful. I mean, if I wanted to run a cutter to produce say a round bottomed slot, I could use a ball nose cutter or tilt the part on the bed.

  5. #5
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    Dec 2013
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    Default

    Tilting head is useful, you can make a standard end mill turn into a 90 degree V cutter, drill and bore holes on an angle etc.
    But you do need table length to set up and it gets used up really quickly.
    Alternative is to use a tilting milling table or vice, these are expensive accessories.
    Using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    Tilting head is useful, you can make a standard end mill turn into a 90 degree V cutter, drill and bore holes on an angle etc.
    But you do need table length to set up and it gets used up really quickly.
    Alternative is to use a tilting milling table or vice, these are expensive accessories.
    I made a tilting angle plate that is a lot more useful IMO than tilting the milling machine head, but it does cost Z space. At 400mm long and 150mm wide there's plenty of room on it for fixturing pretty much anything reasonably sized.

    It cost me almost nothing except time - based loosely on a design in some back copy of Home Shop Machinist.

    PDW

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    733

    Default

    I've got a Rong Fu 30 very similar to yours but just a tadge smaller. Can get a bit tedious if you need to change the height and change the speed a lot during a job but apart from that I think its great.

    There are various internet sites that have advice regarding round column mills - Cuppajoe on youtube is interesting , Rick Sparbers site is also worth a look . There is a bloke in Perth who makes stabilising kits for approx $300 to keep the alignment when you move the head. I use an inclined vice to cut vee notches with a vertical end mill - works fine but size of workpiece is limited by vice size so inclined pallette might be better, maybe you could stick a pallette on the inclined vice - don't know I've never tried.

    Raising the head can be tedious when you have to realign the head to the original work - as pipeclay says a bit of thinking ahead and planning can help here. Running a drill bit back into its own hole after moving the head is how I usually try to realign the head - tried the laser thingy but didn't like it. Various methods discussed on internet.

    Some people have put a diamond wheel or grinding stone on the column and either swept the head around or movede the workpiece mounted on the table to make the mill into a pseudo surface grinder - I have no idea how effective this is have never tried doing this. Google will find them.

    You can swing the head around to the side of the table and drill or mill into something off to the side of the table - can't do that on a dovetail mill.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Hi Guys,

    Just sticking in my 2PW here
    As most of you know I have a Optimum BF20 Clone along with my share of troubles ! It has a rotatable head, which I've only ever tried to use once. What a poor experience ! Faffing about with a spanner, tapping with a rubber mallet, the head vibrating loose and moving in use.
    After all that trying to get the dam thing back in tram afterwards ! What a pain.

    Since then I've never shifted the head, other than to give it a thump now and again to correct very minor out of tram conditions. Preferring to use other more rigid methods of getting an angle if I need to. One other advantage to not using the tilting head is that you only have about eight inches of travel on the table, where as doing angles the other way you have the whole length of the table to play with ! Much better.

    Whilst on with round column mills, I did see something where someone had made a bar that fastened to the column by means of two rings that went around the column and prevented the head from rotating when the rings were clamped. I had a quick look to see if I could find the notes for this again, without luck. But I've mentioned it here because its relevant.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Mullaloo WA
    Posts
    80

    Default Fix for the round column Mills

    The chap in Perth you mention is Bruce Whitham, he makes a kit to help fix the registration problem with these mills, Bruce has his own Youtube Channel where you can see the details of these kits. For the information of those interested.

    Col

  10. #10
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    Jun 2007
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    Vic
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    I started with the Rong-Fu 30 as the first mill then upgraded to bridgeport clone. If I do it again I will go with the second hand knee mill. I have to admit I learned a lot from the Rong-Fu and it served me well. Depending on how much room you have I guess.

  11. #11
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    That registration is more important than you might at first think. Talking to one of the toolmakers at work a few years ago, we were (jointly) moaning about the turret mill that we had, and how there was a looseness/ play in the spindle, especially when the quill was extended. He explained to me that the quill on a mill should really only be used to drill holes; the habit some people have of extending the quill and taking milling cuts leads to wear & eventual looseness in the quill sleeve.

    A drill-mill does not easily allow Z adjustment so the temptation is to extend the quill and cut that way, but you should try and keep that quill stick-out to a minimum, hence the need for registration when winding the head up and down. (The same applies to a turret mill - try to adjust Z with the table rather than the quill for better rigidity.) A drill mill does not have that table adjustment, so you just have to do the best you can with what it is. Another example of 'just because you can does not mean you should'.

    Most of the time it should not be a problem - I would say that at least 95% of the time when milling I feed in X or Y rather than Z, and I imagine that is true for most people. However, worth being aware of this potential way of reducing the accuracy of your mill in the long term, although probably for occasional use you won't see the effects.

    Michael

  12. #12
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    Sep 2012
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    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colnjulia View Post
    The chap in Perth you mention is Bruce Whitham, he makes a kit to help fix the registration problem with these mills, Bruce has his own Youtube Channel where you can see the details of these kits. For the information of those interested.

    Col

    Hi Col, No the one I was rattling about was American or Canadian.

    They showed a picture with two rings about four inches apart and a square or rectangular bar that was between them. I didn't take a lot of notice at the time, but it definitely was not an Australian.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  13. #13
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    Jun 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Whilst on with round column mills, I did see something where someone had made a bar that fastened to the column by means of two rings that went around the column and prevented the head from rotating when the rings were clamped. I had a quick look to see if I could find the notes for this again, without luck. But I've mentioned it here because its relevant.
    Standard on Emco FB-2 milling machines right from when they were first made.

    It *is* possible to do the round mill/head movement caper correctly - you just have to want to build a quality machine, that's all.

    Disclosure - I have an FB-2 clone made in Taiwan. It's a nice little toy machine that matches my Emco Maximat 11 lathe. I certainly didn't need the FB-2 but - shrug - it doesn't take up a lot of space and it's useful for small jobs.

    PDW

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    That registration is more important than you might at first think. Talking to one of the toolmakers at work a few years ago, we were (jointly) moaning about the turret mill that we had, and how there was a looseness/ play in the spindle, especially when the quill was extended. He explained to me that the quill on a mill should really only be used to drill holes; the habit some people have of extending the quill and taking milling cuts leads to wear & eventual looseness in the quill sleeve.

    A drill-mill does not easily allow Z adjustment so the temptation is to extend the quill and cut that way, but you should try and keep that quill stick-out to a minimum, hence the need for registration when winding the head up and down. (The same applies to a turret mill - try to adjust Z with the table rather than the quill for better rigidity.) A drill mill does not have that table adjustment, so you just have to do the best you can with what it is. Another example of 'just because you can does not mean you should'.

    Most of the time it should not be a problem - I would say that at least 95% of the time when milling I feed in X or Y rather than Z, and I imagine that is true for most people. However, worth being aware of this potential way of reducing the accuracy of your mill in the long term, although probably for occasional use you won't see the effects.

    Michael
    On the turret type knee mills I generally bring the knee up 'close' then touch off with the quill at minimum extension, lock the quill and put on any cuts by feeding up with the knee.

    Aside from wear this minimises any backlash/free play issues.

    I only use the quill under power when drilling or boring.

    PDW

  15. #15
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    Aug 2015
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Guys,
    Whilst on with round column mills, I did see something where someone had made a bar that fastened to the column by means of two rings that went around the column and prevented the head from rotating when the rings were clamped. I had a quick look to see if I could find the notes for this again, without luck. But I've mentioned it here because its relevant.
    Model Engineers Workshop magazine #108 page 47 - article "Round with Dovetail Advantages"

    Greg.

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