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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Perth WA
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    71
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    6,458

    Default Modular Vice Query

    I am tempted to acquire one of these vices but before I hit the "buy it now" button I thought it prudent to ask if any others on this forum have purchased a modular vice from the eBay seller Master Machinery in Dandenong.

    The seller's feedback isn't too flash and the photos show only one vise with no indication of size.

    I am wondering if anyone does have one of these vices does it live up to expectations?

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Precisio...WnYtFg3LlLWuUA

    The appeal is the low bed / way height and the jaw opening width. Nothing I have comes close.


    s-l500.jpg

    Bob.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    I have an older version of this format of vice made by NEWS in Japan (it's not as low profile as that) I still get some jaw lift with it and the swarf gets packed and jammed in the middle but it does hold stuff well and can hold more in length than my other vices. I don't think I like how the jaws are made on that because the complicated geometry makes making soft jaws or replacements annoying. Best of luck though.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,444

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    That looks like it could be 75 mm (3" inch) one. I must admit that I would prefer to actually get my hands on it before parting with my cash. There are a lot of good looking vise around that are absolute trash. When I got mine, I was lucky that I bought it from a reputable dealer, who had no hesitation saying take it and if your are not happy bring it back and I will exchange it or give your money back. You can't beat that kind of service.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    Richard (eskimo) has 2 x 160mm ones, I put him onto the first one down that way years ago.
    Using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    54
    Posts
    825

    Default

    Hi Bob,
    I've mentioned before that I have a couple of Sagop modular vices and I reckon this vice format is the bees knees. They are quick to adjust, very easy to clean, light to move around but dead ridged when it comes to holding work. There is no lift if you allow the prismatic jaws to float as they pull the work down when tightened. Even if you tighten the jaws down there is no lift as the action of the screw works on the moving jaw in a downward direction.
    I can't however comment on the quality of the Dandenong import versions. The add says they allow local pickup so I assume it should be possible to call in and have a look. Dandy isn't far from Rowville where I work so I'd be happy to pay them a visit and check them out for you in a week or so if that helps.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    I got mine from Assett Machinery

    Mate has two from H&F...and apart from laser ToolMaster logo they are same same except for the premium price from H&F

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Ralph, John. Dave and Greg,

    Thank you for your replies. Being able to physically inspect something rather than rely on a few photos is certainly the best way of avoiding tears. I've been clipped way too many times purchasing stuff on eBay based on descriptions and photos that fail to match reality.

    Greg,

    Thank you for your generous offer of inspection.

    I had been tempted about five years ago when the Dutch seller, Machinehandel A.G.BOS had a pair of 100mm wide SAGOP RP 80s.

    Set Sagop R80 machineklemmen 2.jpg Set Sagop R80 machineklemmen 3.jpg

    Greg Q was interested in one of the two for his FP1. My Dutch colleague Martine communicated with the seller who would sell us the vices but would not have any thing to do with their collection and shipping to Australia. So temptation faded.

    When you said you had a pair of the French vices, my interest was rekindled. I started thinking about the possibility of making my own version of a low profile vice based on Sagop's online exploded parts diagrams.

    8.jpg

    I have the cast iron and the little Hercus T and C can perform as a surface grinder which would enable me to grind a vice bed about 300mm in length. Home made, it's only time. Shop bought, it's a punt and a fair amount of dough.

    How feasible do you reckon it would be to undertake a DIY version?

    Bob.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,945

    Default

    Hi Bob, I'd say it would be very feasable. Anything can be made at home, if you have the time and patience.
    Don't forget the WIP report and pics please.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
    Posts
    1,225

    Default

    I don't have any experience the vices you ave linked but that design of vice is the best i have used. We have ones made in Italy by OML at work and they are fantastic, but their not cheap, about $2500 each.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    71
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snapatap View Post
    I don't have any experience the vices you ave linked but that design of vice is the best i have used. We have ones made in Italy by OML at work and they are fantastic, but their not cheap, about $2500 each.
    Ashley,

    When I was searching for Sagop info, I chanced upon a site where a bloke had made some hold down clamps for his vice. He said the 100mm width vice sold for over a thousand Euros. On par with your work's OMLs.

    https://thecogwheel.net/2018/03/16/v...d-rust-bluing/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,542

    Default

    I do like the way that the swivel base locks to the vice. Looks lots sturdier than T nuts in a circular groove. Not 100% clear on how it locks though. Does part 10 have a ball in the base that locates in holes in the base? I have been chasing a design for a low profile vice that could be used on my SG myself so would find this interesting too.

    Michael

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    I do like the way that the swivel base locks to the vice. Looks lots sturdier than T nuts in a circular groove. Not 100% clear on how it locks though. Does part 10 have a ball in the base that locates in holes in the base? I have been chasing a design for a low profile vice that could be used on my SG myself so would find this interesting too.

    Michael
    This is probably a better illustration Michael.

    Capture.JPG

    The bloc ecrou, block nut, rotates on the pivot (6) forcing the ball into the detent in the vice base locking the nut in place. My impression anyway.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    54
    Posts
    825

    Default

    Hi Bob,
    Yep that's pretty much it in a nutshell, it's a very simple but elegant mechanism.
    I'm sure someone of your capeabilities would be able to replicate the design, probably the trickiest part would be the floating jaw assemblies but it's not super complex.
    I'm pretty sure the Sagop components are steel not CI. I'm not sure how CI would go as the base of the vice sort of acts like a T-slot and there is a lot of unsupported force placed on it when the vice is tightened and CI might blow out under the point load.
    The swivel base is also a clever design and only adds about 20mm of height.
    When I get home I can take some photos of the different parts. I've actually been planning to make some 3D printed soft jaws so I can take measurements if that helps, although mine are the 125mm models so they might need to be tweaked for a 100mm version.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    Default

    Hi Greg,

    I reckon the base is steel too. The swarf shown in this Sagop clip at 0:54 certainly doesn't look like cast iron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icm0cQh95Ic

    I would have been thinking about the Orange vice which has its body made from continuous cast Dura-Bar. 0:50 into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAdqMI8U6fQ

    I have some 80 x 40 Flowcast 4E which is probably too narrow and I have the cast table from my Hercus No. 3 T and C that will become a donor for something one day, but given your warning, I should be looking at maybe 1045 or 4140.

    Bob.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    Default

    I had a visit from Alan "C-47" this afternoon and he bought with him his father's two piece mill vice for me to have a fiddle with. A fiddle and photos will be forthcoming.

    We discussed the notion of a joint venture and making a pair of "modular" vices with one for his FP1. Greg's concern regarding fracturing of the cast iron at the location of contact with the nut's pivot meant that steel would be the appropriate material for the base. I was thinking I could purchase a length of 100 x 76 4140 and saw it from both sides to end up with some rough slices approximately 100 x 36. Sounded achievable. And now I have given it some more thought.

    When I made the retractable threading tool I discussed the issue of hardening with Peter Fou. Peter had made a dozen toolholders for his Drehblitz toolpost and had them nitrided. Hardening was not going to be an option for me, especially with my one off holder so Peter's advice was to maintain absolute cleanliness of all mating clamping surfaces to avoid bruising. I do have a pair of non hardened, non original toolholders that I use on my Boeni tool post and they are covered in bruises, attesting to a lack of personal hygiene in their previous life.

    So with bruising in mind I have given more thought to the 4140. Unhardened and with a hardened pivot pin used in the vice's nut, I reckon there would be every likelihood that the pin would create an indentation in the "soft" 4140 given that the tightening forces would be far greater than those encountered on a toolpost. The expense of hardening the 4140 and its subsequent grinding would probably be such that the over the counter modular vice might be a more economical solution.

    An even more economical solution may just be a DIY two piece vice. Simpler too.

    Bob.

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