Thread: Bridgeport vs Deckel

I'm sitting here at work with nothing to do (other than work), and I'm wondering what can a Deckel practically do that a Bridgeport cannot?

I understand that having the x not on the y is a superior setup for the Deckel so it wins there.

Are the spindles of a 2nd hand model Deckel you are likely to get really that superior to a Bridgeport spindle?

I've noticed Robin Renzetti, master of all things to do with accuracy, uses a Bridgeport himself.

I don't think it is a matter of 'do' so much when comparing these machines. It's more a matter of how well. A couple of examples -

• Bridgeport use a R8 taper in their spindles. It works but people will tell you it is not the most rigid in the world.
• The head on a Bridgeport can move in all sorts of ways, but the price for that is that it may not be as stiff as a more constrained head

The basic design of a Bridgeport has been incredibly popular and copies based on it have sprung up all over the world so there must be some things going for that design. I suspect that for general purpose and/or tool work, it would be very handy and mean that sine tables and so on would not be needed as much. The trade off is that it probably does not do heavy cuts as well as other configurations of mill. There are lots of accessories and things that can be added on to a Bridgeport to increase it's flexibility (but then Deckel has options like that too)

I see them as one of those products/ brands that has gained a profile through strong sales in it's domestic market, and Bridgeport have been fortunate enough to be able to exploit that through out the world.

Michael

Hi Guys,

Certainly for as long as I can remember, the Adcock & Shipley Bridgeport mill has been considered the go to machine in the engineering field. Many times described to me as the Rolls Royce of mills. I had never heard of Deckel till I joined these forums, but many speak very highly of them.

So my take would be that Bridgeport would be the universal do it all mill, whilst the Deckel very much a higher end precision machine. I also think price plays a big part.

Thanks Baron & Michael,

I hope to use my mill soon to make some very accurate parts which need to be long and perfectly flat for robotics and a couple of other projects - hence my concern is mainly with accuracy, or the 'how well' part.
Deckels and precision always get mentioned in the same sentence, and they always go for high prices, so I have been curious as to just how superior their accuracy is.
My Chinese Bridgeport clone for example is more or less perfect across the middle of its table in flatness, but rises up at the ends by ~0.04 or so. So if I want flat parts I'll need to invest time in scraping - and I have quite a few hours under my belt doing that, so I know the work involved. There's also the issue I've heard of of table 'tilt' - when the bridgeport table is extended far to one side, it pulls the remaining part on the table slightly up.
It's encouraging that you say Adcock Shipley were a gold standard, perhaps it will be worth keeping the Bridgport clone around and working on it rather than trading it in eventually.

I can only offer my perspective, I own an original j head bridgeport and I would say that a deckel offers the same flexibility with much more rigidity but with a much smaller work envelope.

Also proper power feeds on all axis is a huge advantage. Downside is everything costs a lot more for a deckel.

I know which I would have given the choice and it wouldn't be the BP

Originally Posted by j3dprints

I hope to use my mill soon to make some very accurate parts which need to be long and perfectly flat for robotics and a couple of other projects - hence my concern is mainly with accuracy, or the 'how well' part.

...My Chinese Bridgeport clone for example is more or less perfect across the middle of its table in flatness, but rises up at the ends by ~0.04 or so. So if I want flat parts I'll need to invest time in scraping - and I have quite a few hours under my belt doing that, so I know the work involved.

Unless you want to do the scraping for other reasons, it might be quicker with an aluminium plate on the table (drilled and tapped with tie down points) that you run a fly cutter across to get 'flat' according to the spindle. If you do a skim every time you mount it up, it should always be flat to the spindle.

Michael

Hello Michael,

I did that with a steel plate that I mounted my vise onto. Better than trying to shim the vise to compensate for table errors and head nod.

Originally Posted by caskwarrior

I can only offer my perspective, I own an original j head bridgeport and I would say that a deckel offers the same flexibility with much more rigidity but with a much smaller work envelope.

Also proper power feeds on all axis is a huge advantage. Downside is everything costs a lot more for a deckel.

I know which I would have given the choice and it wouldn't be the BP

I've got both and it's the B/port that will get sold.

B/port has a substantially bigger work envelope. If you've the all angle table for the Deckel I'd give the edge on odd setups to the Deckel.

B/port J type heads have 3 speed power downfeed for boring; Deckel has a ton of different power feeds on the knee plus a quill for manual drilling etc etc.

If I could only have one mill it'd be a Deckel FP3 or FP2 with the long table travel.

I've done a ton of work on my B/port over the years and it's a quite accurate machine but the Deckel wins with its 40 taper spindle, greater rigidity, all angle table and geared power feeds, plus being both vertical and horizontal.

PDW

Originally Posted by BaronJ

Certainly for as long as I can remember, the Adcock & Shipley Bridgeport mill has been considered the go to machine in the engineering field. Many times described to me as the Rolls Royce of mills.

A mate did a year or two there after his apprenticeship, did sell him a lightly used Adcock and Shipley version a few years back that was probably too cheap in hindsight. Supposedly a test with a 50 cent piece on edge not toppling over with feeds and spindle going was the measure of their superiority.

Originally Posted by j3dprints

Are the spindles of a 2nd hand model Deckel you are likely to get really that superior to a Bridgeport spindle?

Older needle bearing spindles might be problematic, but a bridgeport spindle itself is around 1 1/2" diameter, the deckel here is around 5", so equal condition, I'd say significant difference in favour of the german. BP is more versatile in my view in some respects, installing 100kg + heads, or 270kg tables to utilize some feature on the deckel, tends to stop you using said feature if you can avoid it. If you were looking for something with the best of both worlds, a Huron might be closer to my ideal, every one I've seen in recent years has been pretty well used up though....and no more room anyway.

I vote for a bridgeport style.

My reasons are simply spare part and accessory availability.

That is to say the bridgeport is the best, just probably the most practical.

Originally Posted by .RC.

I vote for a bridgeport style.

My reasons are simply spare part and accessory availability.

That is to say the bridgeport is the best, just probably the most practical.

The Deckel type is the better mill.

The B/port type is a *lot* more ubiquitous.

If I could only have one mill, it'd probably be a 40 taper Lagun, Kondia or similar high quality B/port type design with 3 axis power feeds. The standard B/port with the R8 taper spindle is a bit too lightweight for a lot of what I do.

I have a spare B/port head and if I ever get a round tuit it's going on my Vicky U2 horizontal mill, at which point the B/port is on the market. Maybe next year because this year is already over-committed what with launching the boat and work-related travel.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

The Deckel type is the better mill.

The B/port type is a *lot* more ubiquitous.

If I could only have one mill, it'd probably be a 40 taper Lagun, Kondia or similar high quality B/port type design with 3 axis power feeds. The standard B/port with the R8 taper spindle is a bit too lightweight for a lot of what I do.

I have a spare B/port head and if I ever get a round tuit it's going on my Vicky U2 horizontal mill, at which point the B/port is on the market. Maybe next year because this year is already over-committed what with launching the boat and work-related travel.

PDW

Yea I forgot to put the "not" in that last sentence. As in Bridgeport is not the best..

Exactly which model Bridgeport are we comparing against which model Deckel?

Is this a general comparison based on say a price point of, say, $6,000 for a second hand machine that might be available to any of us with a home workshop?

It's really horses for courses I think.

I have a Deckel FP2LB (not yet running, lo these many years) and would like a bridgeport Series 1 which I would add a riser to and use predominately as a drill press with X and Y table movement.

I would not sell the Deckel though.

The ability to work on items 1.5m in diameter and weighing 1.2 tonnes could be an advantage as could the all tilting, swivelling, upside down, back to front tables & heads ( ok so not really upside down or back to front but you get the picture) Yes all those wonderfull heads and tables are a pain to get on and off then tram up etc. esp as they can weigh up to 390kg for the swivelling tilting table. Probably why I have a 500 kg gantry over the top of the Deckel (It's waiting a coat of paint, lo these many years and yes I know you've all heard this story before) One significant downside to the Deckels is that most of the standard heads have a top speed of 2000 rpm. That was good with the HSS tools of 40 years ago, not so flash with todays carbide tools or if you want to use small endmills.

The other advantage of having both mills is that the bridgeport can be used for simple milling jobs if required rather than having to breakdown and rejig the Deckel if it's halfway through a complex job. Although that can be said for owning pretty much any two mills.

As to specifically what a Deckel may be able to do that a Bridgeport can't? (Assuming we are working within their limits, not overloading etc) Probably very little, the tilting, swivelling tables and heads can make life a lot easier, reducing setup times & frustration compared to a Bridgeport, beyond that it's more about the operators limitations rather than the machines.

With regard to my machine, my thoughts on where it will eventually sit have changed as the construction of the shed has proceeded and I moved it a couple of weeks ago to it's ultimate location, blew the dust off it and went back to shed construction, I'll get back to, well, real soon, yeah that's it, real soon.

Edit: After posting this it occured to me that many of the Deckel heads can rotate through 360 degrees in a plane defined by the X axis and Z axis. Thus the head could be used upside down and you could work inside out as a consequence. I suspect this capability is seldom used in the real world

Cheers

The Beryl Bloke

Originally Posted by Theberylbloke

Exactly which model Bridgeport are we comparing against which model Deckel?
As to specifically what a Deckel may be able to do that a Bridgeport can't? (Assuming we are working within their limits, not overloading etc) Probably very little, the tilting, swivelling tables and heads can make life a lot easier, reducing setup times & frustration compared to a Bridgeport, beyond that it's more about the operators limitations rather than the machines.

OK So... There is not much a high quality bridgeport type machine can't do (Lagun / Pacific etc.) that a Deckel can.
It is more about the features each one has, they can both create a high quality part it is more dependent on the operator using it. Obviously the Deckel has a number of extra heads which add things.
It is not so much like Ferrari (Deckel) vs Normal car (Bridgeport), where one just outperforms the other.... it's more like different types of vehicles which are in the same class quality wise (assuming the Bridgeport is a good make) (?)

Originally Posted by Theberylbloke

One significant downside to the Deckels is that most of the standard heads have a top speed of 2000 rpm. That was good with the HSS tools of 40 years ago, not so flash with todays carbide tools or if you want to use small endmills.

I have a high speed head for mine - it goes to 12,000 rpm IIRC. Not home to check ATM. So it isn't an issue, really.

The B/port M head I have tops out at 4800(?) rpm, the J heads high 3000's.

Currently I have 4 milling machines and the B/port gets the least use. That's all I really need to know about its utility WRT the others - for *my* usage/needs. I use the Vicky mill extensively but that's at least in part because I have a really large selection of side & face cutters.

As I've said a heavy duty turret type mill with decent power feeds and a 40 taper spindle would be my choice if I could only have one mill, and that'd include a Deckel FP2 as they don't really have enough travels. I've never really warmed to the FP2LB machines for some irrational reason.

PDW