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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    sydney ( st marys )
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    64
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    4,887

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    As you have said you have collets from different sauces and the same problem with both,either really bad luck or user error in my opinion.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
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    283

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    It would be a real giggle if what you have is an #3 Morse to RDF adapter. As far as I can tell, they look similar from the outside but are NOT compatible.
    (for a given interpretation of 'giggle')

    Cheers
    Roger

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaffin View Post
    I bought the machine new from hare and Forbes,
    Aha. Are they anywhere near you? Can you take the problem - or at least the collets and the adapter, back to them for checking?
    Not in Tasmania, I had it freighted from Melbourne. The collets and adapters were purchased online. .

    Yeah, but what is the fitting for the face cutter? Morse taper? If so, that tells you zero about the adapter.
    It is a morse taper fitting. I believe it tells me a lot about the collet adapter. From that I expect the spindle is not the runout problem. It's either the collet adapter, collet or nut. The problem is I have multiples of them, and they all give me problems.

    Maybe I was too cheap, but I didnt want to be spending $2-300 and getting the same stuff. It's difficult to tell who is just reselling the cheap stuff at a higher price.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
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    6,542

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    I'm in Burnie and can make a run to see you if you like and bring some of my (cheap) ER32 collets to compare. Only trouble is that I'm not free to do so until the weekend of the 1st/ 2nd of September.
    If that helps,
    Michael

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
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    283

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    It's either the collet adapter, collet or nut. The problem is I have multiples of them, and they all give me problems.
    Just checking: do you have multiple #3M to ER adapters, or just one of them?

    Perhaps Michael can sort it out. Or maybe someone else.

    Failing that and all else, you could post the adapter, a couple of collets and nuts, to me in Sydney and I could compare the lot with my set (#3M to ER32) which fits into my lathe and works well. You cover the postage both ways, so not cheap: an act of desperation!

    Cheers
    Roger

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    I'm in Burnie and can make a run to see you if you like and bring some of my (cheap) ER32 collets to compare. Only trouble is that I'm not free to do so until the weekend of the 1st/ 2nd of September.
    If that helps,
    Michael
    Thanks Michael. I appreciate the offer, and I'll keep it in mind. For the moment, I'm thinking of checking the adapters in my lathe (as suggested). I'm thinking the angle may not be uniform along the length of the taper on the inside of the adapter. I can 'rock' the collet in the adapter until I get quite a bit of tension on the nut. My feeling is that I should be able to do that if the angle was correct (it should be tight pushed in, even taking into account the springiness of the collet).

    Mat

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaffin View Post
    It's either the collet adapter, collet or nut. The problem is I have multiples of them, and they all give me problems.
    Just checking: do you have multiple #3M to ER adapters, or just one of them?
    I have 2 adapters with nuts, and multiple collets (which is why it's perplexing). With that information it would be likely to be the machine, but I've measured the runout on the spindle then the collet adapter (which is minimal). I surmised that it was 'operator error' which is why I decide to make the post

    Failing that and all else, you could post the adapter, a couple of collets and nuts, to me in Sydney and I could compare the lot with my set (#3M to ER32) which fits into my lathe and works well. You cover the postage both ways, so not cheap: an act of desperation!
    I appreciate the offer (and Michael's plus all the replies with help), I may take you up on it if all else fails. I'll have a bit of a play when I get some time and measure them in the lathe. I just need to make an MT3 adapter for the lathe.

    Mat.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mdouble View Post
    I have 2 adapters with nuts, and multiple collets (which is why it's perplexing). With that information it would be likely to be the machine, but I've measured the runout on the spindle then the collet adapter (which is minimal). I surmised that it was 'operator error' which is why I decide to make the post



    I appreciate the offer (and Michael's plus all the replies with help), I may take you up on it if all else fails. I'll have a bit of a play when I get some time and measure them in the lathe. I just need to make an MT3 adapter for the lathe.

    Mat.
    I have quite a bit of tooling for ER32 and will be back in Hobart next week. Might be a bit closer option - I can certainly check some of your collets for runout in a known good chuck/spindle combination. Don't have any MT3 milling machines (thank God) so can't check the collet chuck. Pretty sure even my baby lathe is MT4 or bigger.

    PDW

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19

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    Ok. Just a silly question. Is it correct to use a 8mm end mill in an 8-7mm collet?

    I just had a look at the collet in the adapter. Without a tool in the collet, I can push the collet in and it doesn't 'rock' in the adapter (as the collet compresses). If I put the 8mm end mill in the collet, I can't push the collet in enough by hand to stop it rocking (I don't think tightening the nut with compress the collet enough to match the angle of the adapter either).

    Mat

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    283

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    Is it correct to use a 8mm end mill in an 8-7mm collet?
    Very much so.
    The hole up the middle is machined to 8.0 mm. The collet can be compressed down to 7 mm, but it will not hold a 7 mm drill bit as well as it will hold an 8 mm bit. For anything under 6 mm I use a collet sized to the nearest 0.5 mm. So I have collets 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 etc, to get the best fit.

    If I put the 8mm end mill in the collet, I can't push the collet in enough by hand to stop it rocking
    Possibly so, but not significant.
    I will assume that the 8 mm end mill has an 8.0 mm shank. However, I note that 5/16" is close. Best to mic the shank.
    Yes, you do need to tighten the collet nut up, and this is usually a two-handed (or two spanner) job. Hand tightening is NOT enough. Just make sure the collet is flush at the front face first: ie properly clipped in.

    Cheers
    Roger

  11. #41
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    5,945

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    Do you have access to a protractor, if so, I'd measure the angles of the collet and chuck to check that they correspond.
    I've had collets of different length in ER25, which equals different angles.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Do you have access to a protractor, if so, I'd measure the angles of the collet and chuck to check that they correspond.
    I've had collets of different length in ER25, which equals different angles.
    Kryn
    Are you sure of that,the length of an angle can't change the angle.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
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    283

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    Sorry to be blunt, but that is wrong. The ER half-angle is exactly 8 degrees, for all sizes.
    That is according to Rego-Fix, who invented them.

    Cheers
    Roger

  14. #44
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    I've had one that was different, here's the link to the post. I know they're "supposed" to be the same.
    //metalworkforums.com/f65/t1921...ht=ER25+collet

    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Well just an update.

    I discussed my issue with a guy at work, and he happened to have an MT3 ER collet set. He bought it in for me to try. I noticed a small difference instantly without even fitting it. The collet doesn't 'rock' in the holder like mine without the nut. I tried my collets in his holder and mostly the same, maybe a little 'rocking'. I put the holder in the machine and tightened the nut a bit (I couldn't really tighten it well because there weren't any flats on the holder for some reason). I spun it up and it looked good. I checked runout at 0.03mm (quite a bit better than my 0.5mm plus).

    It looks like my collet adapters are machined at a slightly incorrect angle (unluckily I got 2 from separate suppliers) and wont seat the collets correctly. Can anyone recommend a supplier with a reasonably priced accurate collet set?

    Thanks everyone for your help

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