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  1. #1
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    Default Paint - some info about substitute thinners for Dulux Metalshield - save money

    This is just information I found out from an enquiry to Dulux about using non-proprietary solvents for thinning and cleaning up of Dulux Metalshield paints. I'm not asking anyone here any questions - I'm just passing on handy info. Hardly entertaining but might be useful.

    For painting metal, I have normally used Wattyl Killrust. It does the job as far as I'm concerned. One advantage I've noticed is that other metal paints like white Knight and Dulux Metalshield get into bother with the thinners - all sorts of proprietary concoctions. Killrust just uses turps for clean-up and for thinning.

    However, I wanted a pot of colour Killrust doesn't have. Dulux Metalshield had it - 'Tractor Blue'. So I got sucked in.

    1. Metalshield Epoxy enamel and Premium topcoat use turps for brush thinners. Save yourself some money. Use generic turps.
    Ok, so the Metalshield colour topcoats are alkyd enamels that come in two grades - 'Premium' (a silicon alkyd enamel, and more UV resistant) and 'Epoxy Enamel'. Both recommend using 'Metalshield Brush Thinner' for thinning and cleaning. Uh oh, that's $16.50 for a litre. However, the MSDS says that the composition of this product is 'Mineral Turpentine 100%' (but they don't tell you that on the tin). I asked the Dulux technical info, "so, is it alright then to use 100% Mineral Turpentine as a substitute?", just in case there was some trick to it. But their answer was "that's fine, just make sure it's 100% mineral turps.". So, off to the hardware, get a 4L bottle of Diggers turps for $12.50 - that's five times cheaper, for more or less the same thing. I say 'more or less the same thing' because of what is covered in the next paragraph here (which you can skip, if you didn't like Chemistry 101).

    First, just as an aside, the hardware paint fellow said "ah, yes, mineral turpentine, but look at the label on the Digger's bottle, it says in the fine print 'turpentine substitute'.". Well, it turns out that yes, mineral turpentine is indeed a substitute for natural turpentine, an expensive and exotic distilled tree resin. So this is not an issue, at least for brush cleaning. The only niggling possibility is that, according to Wikipedia, there are at least three grades of mineral turpentine (aka white spirit, aka turpentine substitute), ranging from pure naptha (like Shellite) to heavier oilier types, of which the Diggers type has a good dash. Whoever contributed to the WP text has added "Turpentine substitute can be used for general cleaning but is not recommended for paint thinning as it may adversely affect drying times due to the less volatile components". What they are meaning is that, with Diggers turps for example (looking at the Diggers MSDS), it is a mixture mainly of light aromatic solvent naphtha (CAS 64742-95-6), (almost like Shellite), and hydrodesulphurized heavy naphtha (CAS 64742-82-1). Since Dulux don't say what their mineral turpentine 'Brush Thinner' consists of exactly, itís hard to know their proportions of light to heavy naphtha. But when you look back at the ingredients for the actual paints, the 'Epoxy Enamel' uses mainly light aromatic naphtha (CAS 64742-95-6), and 'Premium' uses mainly Stoddard's solvent (8052-41-3), which is close to hydrodesulphurized heavy naphtha. It all comes around in a full circle, there's nothing too odd in it all, and considering that both topcoats use the same 'Brush Thinner', and the Dulux tech say "'mineral turpentine' is fine", there's a good bet that not only can you clean brushes with Digger's Turps, you can use it as a thinner too. If it takes too long to dry, then buy the Dulux version of mineral turps, i.e 'Metalshield Brush Thinner'. But bottom line, Diggers turps will clean your brushes, and there's a very good chance it is quite alright as a thinner too.

    2. Metalshield All-surface Primer can use acetone for thinners - so save yourself money, use generic acetone.
    This one is much simpler. I asked Dulux about the thinners recommended for their Metalshield All-surface Primer. On the tin, it says to use 'Dulux Urethane Thinner'. If you go to Bunnings, they won't have it, because, as the Dulux tech people told me, Bunnings don't have the dangerous goods handling requirements for it, so only Dulux Trade stocks it. So at Bunnings they'll have all sorts of theories what you should use (I suspected I was hearing BS, that's why I dug into all of this). The real story is (but it's not written on the tin!) you can use acetone or the urethane thinner. This is both written on the detailed product technical data sheet, http://www.duluxprotectivecoatings.c...0-%20LI014.pdf, and was confirmed verbally by Dulux tech. One other thing, I asked whether xylene can be used as a thinner instead of acetone (since it is a component of the primer too) but Dulux said "xylene thinner may cause the product to fall apart". So stick to acetone. Incidentally, Dulux all-surface primer is a zinc phosphate etch primer, and can be used under all alkyd base topcoats - so that includes Killrust if you like, because that's an alkyd resin enamel too.

    HTH


    Some people like references:
    Metalshield Premium MSDS: https://go.lupinsys.com/duluxgroup/h...AT-AUS_GHS.pdf
    Metalshield Epoxy Enamel MSDS: https://go.lupinsys.com/duluxgroup/h...SS-AUS_GHS.pdf
    Metalshield All Surface Primer MSDS: https://go.lupinsys.com/duluxgroup/h...EY-AUS_GHS.pdf
    Metalshield Premium technical data sheet: http://www.duluxprotectivecoatings.c...t-%20LI011.pdf
    Metalshield All surface Primer technical data sheet: http://www.duluxprotectivecoatings.c...0-%20LI014.pdf
    Diggers Mineral Turpentine MSDS: http://www.recochem.com.au/files/dow...pentine_v8.pdf

  2. #2
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    Default

    Or just use petrol.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Or just use petrol.
    Or kerosene. But these are closer to (or actually are) the recommended solvents, with a view to thinning in addition to cleaning.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Petrol, turps will thin any enamels, as long as they aren't mixed.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onanonanon View Post
    Petrol, turps will thin any enamels, as long as they aren't mixed.
    You'd thin a $30 tin of specialised paint with petrol? Ok!

  6. #6
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    Default

    Kind of worked this out when I recently painted my tipping trailer (thread about it in the Trailers forum). The can of Dulux primer said you could thin it with acetone, which I did, as I wanted to spray it on. I also liked the phosphoric acid in it - it seems to be a really good primer.

    For the Dulux hammer finish paint, I did buy the recommended thinner - the Dulux brush cleaner - but as soon as I opened it, I realised it was turps, so that'll be the last can of Dulux brush cleaner I'll buy.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    Kind of worked this out when I recently painted my tipping trailer (thread about it in the Trailers forum). The can of Dulux primer said you could thin it with acetone, which I did, as I wanted to spray it on. I also liked the phosphoric acid in it - it seems to be a really good primer.

    For the Dulux hammer finish paint, I did buy the recommended thinner - the Dulux brush cleaner - but as soon as I opened it, I realised it was turps, so that'll be the last can of Dulux brush cleaner I'll buy.
    Yes, it makes more sense than getting into the proprietary concoctions guff. Just keep turps and acetone, and you're right to go. Funny thing is, they do all the proprietary solvents (or bluffing that they're proprietary) to sell more. For me, it just put me off and I avoided Metalshield for years.

  8. #8
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    Default

    be aware that there are 2 types of turps
    "Pure" or "Gum" turpertine and "mineral" turpentine are not the same thing,
    Both do similar like thin paint etc..but sometimes with different consequences and or results.

  9. #9
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    What about this one, it's more expensive but still the same brand. Diggers.

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-...ne-4l_p1563007

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Com_VC View Post
    What about this one, it's more expensive but still the same brand. Diggers.

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-...ne-4l_p1563007
    MSDS for Diggers Easy Cleanup (http://www.recochem.com.au/files/dow...Cleanup_v5.pdf) says:
    Composition:
    Kerosine (petroleum), hydrodesulfurized (CAS 64742-81-0) 100%
    With components: Naphthalene (CAS 91-20-3) <3%

    So for thinning, that would probably be a worse choice than their standard mineral turpentine, which closely mimics the Metalshield paint solvents. But maybe not out of the question, as it seems to be a version of CAS 64742. For cleanup, no problem.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Well makes more sense to go with the cheaper option then

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