Thread: Premo Mk3 lathe lubrication

Hi,

I've just purchased a Premo Mk3 lathe (with the boxy looking headstock - also sold as a "Veem" lathe). I'm hoping to find out some information about how to lubricate the headstock internals properly.

Inside the headstock is the main spindle which is belt driven from an input shaft, and there's a sliding-dog type arrangement to bring a back gear shaft in and out of gear. The main spindle runs on large tapered roller bearings, one at each end, according to the patent document. The info given at lathes.co.uk agrees with that. I can see no oiler ports, zirk fittings, or holes near those main bearings, which means they're probably greased and can't be oiled. Am I right in thinking that?

Between the main spindle and the input shaft (which lies at the lower rear of the headstock), is a 225L100 timing belt for power transmission. This - to me - means the headstock should not be oil-filled - since oil degrades rubber. So I assume the spur gears in the headstock get oiled manually with each use.

(I can grab a picture of inside the headstock if that's helpful)

Two facts are confusing me though - I noticed two large gaskets that lie between the lathe bed and cabinet. When these were separated, to move the lathe, a cup or two of thick sticky gear oil came out at the headstock end. I also later noticed what could be a drain plug, just above this gasket joint, again on the headstock end. Is this gasket and drain plug just to drain out any excess oil from the manual oiling, or should there be an oil bath in the headstock?

I don't mind at all what the lubrication method is, I just want to be able to look after it properly. I've been waiting on replies for a few days from both Veem in Australia and Tony at lathes.co.uk - if I find anything out, of course I'll post back here for other people's future reference.

If any other owners or previous owners have any info, or especially any documentation, that would be really helpful.

Thanks,
Craig

Hi Craig I have an earlier Premo version but it is identical to yours except for the headstock arrangement. Two problems: I found the half nuts engagement to be rather awkward and not positive, rather it is a wishy washy guessing game. The engaging mechanism on mine broke. The headstock alignment on mine , I could never get it set up to turn acurately consistantly, from memory, the headsock sits on flat ways.

Originally Posted by morrisman

Hi Craig I have an earlier Premo version but it is identical to yours except for the headstock arrangement. Two problems: I found the half nuts engagement to be rather awkward and not positive, rather it is a wishy washy guessing game. The engaging mechanism on mine broke. The headstock alignment on mine , I could never get it set up to turn acurately consistantly, from memory, the headsock sits on flat ways.

Thanks Morrisman, I will watch out for both those issues.

One of the early things I want to do is strip down and clean all the working parts of the apron and saddle. It's clearly in need of a clean, and I'd like to know where all those oiler ports go to. Also - whether or not there's a clutch reservoir like my old Hercus 9A had. I'll take a look at the half nuts then and hopefully make sure nothing's broken or about to break.

Re: alignment. Once I've got the thing levelled and settled, I'll look into setting up the headstock alignment. I hope it's not too difficult to keep it consistent. Interestingly there's a note about headstock alignment on the lathes.co.uk page - where one user of a premo reports being able to set it very accurately. I wonder if some models (early/late or premo/veem) had fore-aft adjusting screws, or something simple like that. I haven't yet looked for those, but as I get around to cleaning that area up, I'll take a look.

Do you remember how the lubrication was meant to work, on the previous model of headstock? Obviously the open flat belts need to be kept dry, but what did they use for the spindle bearings, and the other bearings?

Thanks again for the information.

Craig

Thanks Morrisman, I'm yet to install the levelling feet and get the thing levelled in its proper location, but when I do - headstock and tailstock alignment are next on the list. Hopefully I don't have too much hassle getting the headstock pointing along the ways accurately.

Cleaning out and lubricating the apron and saddle needs to happen soon too. I'll see if there is any sign of wear or things about to break. Certainly hope not. But anyway - a clean and lube can only help.

Thanks for the pointers!

I know your headstock was very different from mine, but can you remember the lubrication needed for the spindle bearings, and any other bearings in that area?

Thanks,
Craig

These are basically good lathes. The tapered roller spindle bearings on mine have grease nipples threaded into the headstock near each end for lubrication I repaired the broken back gear on mine , I took some pics and they may be on this forum somewhere. The earlier version of the lathe has a clumsy motor mount setup, its really crude . The large alloy counter pulley is ridiculous, it vibrates terribly, I tried balancing it but with limited success.

Thanks for those pictures morrisman, they serve to show how different these headstocks are. For one, Mine doesn't have the grease nipples yours has. Also - My power input shaft is under my backgear shaft, and the backgear shaft has a sliding dog arrangement to bring it in and out of linkage. Your bull gear appears to have a transverse locking pin, a bit like my Hercus had. The bearing housings on the newer model seem to be a lot bigger too (this doesn't necessarily mean anything about the bearing size inside, of course).

I've attached a pic of what's in my headstock right now.

On the main spindle, on the workpiece end, is a silver collar with a set screw. I have no idea what this collar and set screw are for as yet, but it doesn't appear to be anything to do with oiling. I'd expect that to be in the casting itself.

Cheers,
Craig

I've just heard back from Tony Griffiths in the UK with the answers to my lubrication questions. He's got a copy of the manual there, and I said I'd be happy to buy a copy if it explains how to look after the headstock. He (generously) wrote the following to me:

"The lubrication instructions are very simple - and don't mention the headstock bearings - hence they will be a sealed-for-life type and need no attention until replacement is called for.

Lubrication of the main spindle toothed Pulley (when in backgear) is by a grease nipple - though there is no indication of where this is.

Oil can be used on the changewheels - and oil everywhere else, not grease."

So - that's fairly straightforward. Thanks Tony, if you're reading!

Cheers,
Craig

Hey mate, i got the same lathe, but it has a older style chuck, that needs replacing, how do you take the backplate off the spindle, the chuck comes off when you undo the 6 bolts holding him on, but i wonder how do i remove the backplate, my backplate is also worn around the centre and id need to find a replacement, cheers

Originally Posted by ZAC1000

Hey mate, i got the same lathe, but it has a older style chuck, that needs replacing, how do you take the backplate off the spindle, the chuck comes off when you undo the 6 bolts holding him on, but i wonder how do i remove the backplate, my backplate is also worn around the centre and id need to find a replacement, cheers

Hi Zac,

I have a pair of 6"/150mm chucks for my lathe: a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw. The backplates for my chucks stay with the chucks, and I disconnect the backplate from the spindle. That connection is a very large threaded connection. I just checked the notes I made when I got the lathe, and I wrote down 2 1/2", 6pti, 55 degree (Right hand, of course).

I couldn't find a spindle lock feature on my machine, which would be ideal for unscrewing the chuck. I had heard stories of bad things happening to gear teeth when you engage gears and start hammering things , so instead I made up a small spindle lock to go on the outboard end of the spindle. Along with a big cheater bar for leverage, it works really well. To unscrew the chuck, use the old hex bar method, where you chuck up some large hex bar, and hold that with a spanner or shifter.

Pic of the spindle clamp is attached.

I switched to this lathe from a smaller Hercus 9" lathe, and the difference is night and day. The Premo does not have a great deal more work envelope, but it's triple the mass, and has a wider and much stouter bed, letting you take a really nice quality (and big) cut.

Incidentally, I now have the manual for the lathe, so if you need me to send through any excerpts, just let me know.

Cheers,
Craig

In addition to the last post, I noticed that the standard premo threading charts on the machine left out some fairly desireable thread pitches (I guess lack of space on the metal thread charts). I wrote some code and came up with the combinations for the missing pitches. Attached as a PDF.

A lot of those aren't yet tested, so if you need e.g. 27 tpi, do a test, and measure it with a thread gauge before possibly ruining a work piece..

Cheers,
Craig

Originally Posted by craigmarshall

Hi Zac,

I have a pair of 6"/150mm chucks for my lathe: a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw. The backplates for my chucks stay with the chucks, and I disconnect the backplate from the spindle. That connection is a very large threaded connection. I just checked the notes I made when I got the lathe, and I wrote down 2 1/2", 6pti, 55 degree (Right hand, of course).

I couldn't find a spindle lock feature on my machine, which would be ideal for unscrewing the chuck. I had heard stories of bad things happening to gear teeth when you engage gears and start hammering things , so instead I made up a small spindle lock to go on the outboard end of the spindle. Along with a big cheater bar for leverage, it works really well. To unscrew the chuck, use the old hex bar method, where you chuck up some large hex bar, and hold that with a spanner or shifter.

Pic of the spindle clamp is attached.

I switched to this lathe from a smaller Hercus 9" lathe, and the difference is night and day. The Premo does not have a great deal more work envelope, but it's triple the mass, and has a wider and much stouter bed, letting you take a really nice quality (and big) cut.

Incidentally, I now have the manual for the lathe, so if you need me to send through any excerpts, just let me know.

Cheers,
Craig

Cheers mate, ill look into making one then, just a whole bored into a bit of billet, with a m6 capscrew as a tightener?

Yeah cheers mate, ill look into making one, shouldnt be too hard, and thanks for the thread document

I have locked my spindle off with a pipe wrench like tool, i have chucked up some hex bar, placed a socket on the hex bar, and got a breaker bar, but too no alas the back plate is not budging, any ideas, as harsh as this is, my next resort is to lock the spindle and use a impact gun, ill probably have to replace the bearings in the head stock anyways

Machine the back plate off.
Is there the chance that the back plate has some type of mechanical lock attaching it to the spindle apart from the back plate thread and register?

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Machine the back plate off.
Is there the chance that the back plate has some type of mechanical lock attaching it to the spindle apart from the back plate thread and register?

Hard to say, how would i go about machining it off


I haven't tried heating it yet, that might help ...maybe?