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  1. #1
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    Mar 2012
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    Default Australian tool maker to create a 1/8 inch shank router bit

    No luck in other forums so I'll try here....
    I need a V groove router bit for timber and cannot seem to locate a metal tool maker who is able to fabricate something or who has enough respect to reply to enquiries.

    My 1/8 inch shank Dremel rotary tool works well and is light. That is why I'm avoiding the use of a 1/4 inch shank router bit which only fits my much heavier Makita trimmer.

    After much internet searching and telephone calls/emails to 25 companies here in Australia I still have not located what I need.

    I need a 1/8 inch shank V groove timber router bit with an included angle of 10 degrees (yes, pretty narrow). The widest part would be 4mm narrowing down to 1.5mm over a distance of about 13.5mm (that gives the 10 degrees). I'd prefer solid carbide but it can be HSS.
    Anyone know of where I can buy one (anywhere in the world) or have a couple fabricated by an Australian tool maker ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harry wall View Post
    [LEFT][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana] I need a V groove router bit for timber and cannot seem to locate a metal tool maker who is able to fabricate something or who has enough respect to reply to enquiries.
    Hi Harry

    Welcome to our Metal Work Forum.

    I believe the reason you do not have any takers among the toolmakers is that perhaps your job looks like far too much effort for too little gain.

    Being tool maker work this job appears to be one-off or low volume and specialized. The toolmakers are probably making good money doing their everyday jobs and probably not interested not wanting work outside their own comfort zone.

    The exception might be a toolmaker who is also a woodworker. For that reason, it may be helpful to fully explain what the specific application is.

    I may be wrong but I can't recall anyone of our members mentioning in a post that they are capable of machining carbide or even High Speed Steel. Outside of basic lathe work, I am not a machinist myself, but do understand it is specialised work.

    However in the event, I am quite wrong about the topic, keep an eye out for replies for a week or two as some of us don't clock into the forum on a regular basis.

    Can I suggest you place a post in the Forum welcome wagon ( //metalworkforums.com/f300) and tell us about yourself?

    Our Forum is pretty different to the one you were used to in 2012.

    Cheers
    Grahame

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harry wall View Post
    No luck in other forums so I'll try here....
    I need a V groove router bit for timber and cannot seem to locate a metal tool maker who is able to fabricate something or who has enough respect to reply to enquiries.

    My 1/8 inch shank Dremel rotary tool works well and is light. That is why I'm avoiding the use of a 1/4 inch shank router bit which only fits my much heavier Makita trimmer.

    After much internet searching and telephone calls/emails to 25 companies here in Australia I still have not located what I need.

    I need a 1/8 inch shank V groove timber router bit with an included angle of 10 degrees (yes, pretty narrow). The widest part would be 4mm narrowing down to 1.5mm over a distance of about 13.5mm (that gives the 10 degrees). I'd prefer solid carbide but it can be HSS.
    Anyone know of where I can buy one (anywhere in the world) or have a couple fabricated by an Australian tool maker ?
    Hello Harry,
    What you are wanting is almost in the realm of rotary Dental Tools, and for the size that you have quoted, that is where I would be looking. Another possible alternative might be engraving tool bits.

    Good Luck.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    5,942

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    Hi Harry, found this on Ebay. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5pc-3-17...AAAOSwPYZU2z~b

    Hope this helps. By the way, would it be possible to change your location from Australia to a suburb and state, please.
    It makes it easier to help you if we know your location.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    35
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    1,522

    Default

    Unfortunately the tool you are describing would be very challenging to grind, are you going to be using it free hand? What tolerances do you require on that angle?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
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    68
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    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harry wall View Post
    I need a 1/8 inch shank V groove timber router bit with an included angle of 10 degrees (yes, pretty narrow). The widest part would be 4mm narrowing down to 1.5mm over a distance of about 13.5mm (that gives the 10 degrees). I'd prefer solid carbide but it can be HSS.
    Anyone know of where I can buy one (anywhere in the world) or have a couple fabricated by an Australian tool maker ?
    I have a feeling that what you want -- 10 degree included angle and a 13 mm cutting depth -- is not doable.
    the finest commercially available bit I can find is a 1/4" shank solid carbide one with a 22.5 degree included angle -- Carb-i-tool item number TV 2208. A good sharpening service might be able to bring this down to what you want
    BUT
    I note that most small diameter straight bits only have a cutting depth of 6 or 7 mm, half what you're looking for.
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Thanks everyone.
    @KBsPensNmore.. thanks for the link. Those bits look promising so I'll investigate.
    @caskwarrior.. yes I'll be using it freehand but with a guide in the groove.
    @Ian.. I do in fact have that TV2208 bit (and a couple of others from Carbitool) but the 22.5 degrees (and the 1/4 inch shank) don't suit. I agree that a "good" sharpening service may be able to modify it but I haven't located a "good" one yet. Any suggestions?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Griffith NSW
    Posts
    435

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Ive used a similar bit to do some dial engraving using the mill. Super fragile bits, just sneeze wrong on the handwheels and off she dissappears. Granted, that was at 1600rpm. not 30 000rpm, and in metal, not timber.

    Still, given my experiences, I just cant see such a narrow, brittle bit could dig 13mm deep in timber. I think OP is after the impossible.

    Can I ask why it is youre after such a cutter? Perhaps there is another solution to the bigger problem.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
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    72
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    3,102

    Default

    Hi Harry,
    the tool you are asking about needs to be a single lip cutter by necessity, because it would be too small at the sharp end to support more than one.
    So the type Kryn showed you is what's available in every angle and every tip diameter.
    They are ground on a single lip tool cutter and EVERY toolmaker can do that. However, NOBODY in the Western world would do it because they cost less than $2 each imported.... The starting point for a toolmaker job would be $100s....
    THEY use these cutters themselves all the time and know how cheap they are - so I imagine they think you are having them on and wouldn't bother to answer. Nothing to do with respect.
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Heidelberg, Victoria
    Age
    79
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    2,074

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    Harry, have a look at the Harvey Tools factory tour, I'd be surprised they couldn't help you out

    Helicalsolutions nearly 58 minutes
    Helical Solutions: Behind the Scenes - In The Loupe - Machinist Blog

    Ken

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    35
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    1,522

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    I dont want to be a negative nelly, but I think he wants to use this in a handheld tool, and by the time you relieve half the carbide blank to make a D bit, it's going to want to snap harder than my waistband.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

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    I use those 10 degree 0.1mm engraving bits in my CNC router to mill copper PCBs. Even at 24,000 RPM and very precisely controlled, there's a reason you buy packs of 10.

    In a Dremel, given their amount of runout, the tip would snap off instantly.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    australia
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    Thanks for the replies. I did, in fact, reply on Saturday but my post has not appeared. Don't know why.
    To answer some questions:
    I am not concerned with the strength of the router bit since I already use a 1/8 inch Dremel straight router bit and that is HSS not carbide. Unfortunately although it cuts well, it is a straight bit and not a V groove bit.
    I have spoken directly (via 'phone) to many companies who invited me to email them the details of what I want and they would reply with quoted costs. None of them bothered. That's why I say they have no respect. Other companies explain they don't do that sort of work so cannot help which is fine of course. They do understand basic manners and respect.
    KBsPensnMore has kindly given an ebay link to a possible solution so I have purchased those and will let you guys/gals know the results.

    In the meantime I'm still keen to find an Australian company who is capable of doing the job so further suggestions are welcomed. As a last resort I may well have to use a 1/4 inch shank V groove bit but again I need to find a company who can fabricate the 10 degrees required.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

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    Quote Originally Posted by harry wall View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I did, in fact, reply on Saturday but my post has not appeared. Don't know why.
    Hi Harry,
    I may have to refer it to our programming guru.

    I did approve the post ( some new posts, especially those with pics can be moderated by the software up to the first ten posts.
    Its a tweak which is meant to combat spammers)

    I approved the original post so all should have been good at that point.

    Something appears to be wrong, as your post count should now be 2 or possibly 3, being the original post, your (disappeared) reply post on Saturday and the one I am replying to, now.
    As I type this, I can only see 1 in your post count (see top RH side). I think it may be a program fault connected with your membership on the Woodwork Side and /or low post count,but I am guessing here?. Transfer across should be be without problems, but ???

    This is above my level, so I shall pass it to the programming guru.

    cheers
    Grahame

  15. #15
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    australia
    Posts
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    I purchased the ebay router bits that KBsPensnMore referenced. I cut the pointed end off to get a flat end of 1.5mm, made a jig to fit onto my rotary tool to act as a guide in the groove and it worked quite well. I'm using it to remove a flexible sealant from a V groove in timber. The first groove I cut was 3mm x 3mm with a straight router bit. This groove acts as a guide for the (less robust) V groove router bit that follows. The V groove router bits are cutting 95% flexible sealant and 5% timber. Anyway, it's a start.

    I'm still keen to hear from anyone who can give me the contact details of a reliable machine shop who is willing and able to fabricate 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch router bits.

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