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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Default Out with the old, in with the old. A CVA arrives

    The Hembrug has found a new home with forum member Ray S (a real gentleman fyi) We moved both machines on the same day with the same truck so I spent the morning rolling it to where the fork could pick it up. After the CVA arrived I gave It a good cleaning. It hadnt been run since 2003 when Kodak shut, and probably not for some time before that. It has been somewhat clumsily repainted that green colour, not the nicest.

    Once all the rat poop was gone I moved it in to the same spot, although the vinyl floor was much more of a problem with such a heavy machine. It fired right up no issues, everything seems to work very well and the bed came up very nicely.
    It also came with all its accessories including a full set of hardinge 5c collets ( although the draw tube is fairly beat up.) and its Jarno headstock adaptor.

    I do have some questions for the other CVA owners out there though.

    How noisy are your machines? without knowing the state of things I didnt run it above 500 rpm (and added oil everywhere first) but it wasnt exactly quiet, nothing sounded terminal but the lower gearbox was pretty noisy, not howling but pretty loud.

    What does the taper attachment tray/cover look like? I can see its mounting screws but everything else is gone, also anything i need to know before dismantling the TTA?

    How do i drain the coolant sump or do I have to pump it out? I am dreading this since having to pull all the gross old wet durry stubs and botle tops out of the last machine i did this to.

    What upper speed do you use the hard-reverse? the manual just says lower speeds, but does that mean only in backgear? Do you use the motor as a break like they suggest? Can induction motors tolerate that harsh treatment? this does look enormous for its rating (4hp but its the same size as the 8hp driving our hydrovane)

    Does the speed selector have a firm detent? mine does not and it seems as though the speed selection is very vague?

    Thanks for reading.

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    Last edited by caskwarrior; 23rd Mar 2018 at 11:17 AM. Reason: photos

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    Default

    Looks like a nice lathe. You will need to do a bit of checking first. That the saddle automatic oiling works as it should. I suspect the taper turning attachment should have a cover over it. They are a nice machine.
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Nice machine, I’m *green* with envy . Interested to see how it cleans up. You did a nice job with the Hembrug. I remember originally seeing it for sale (maybe in Patterson Lakes?) and it was too much of a project for me at the time, but it looked like you gave it justice.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Thanks guys, not too bad so far I have drained all the old oil, all good except the stuff that came out of the quick change gear box was fairly gross, looks like the oil had really broken down.

    I then dismantled and cleaned all the sight glasses, of which there are 6. Next is the sump in the apron and maybe taking the front off the feed selector to clean the gearbox out.

    Should I be cautious when doing that rc, are all the selectors horrible to line up again?

  5. #5
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    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    I don't know. I was not game to pull the feed gearbox apart. I only pulled mine off as a modular unit, but the castings are all different shapes on a CVA compared to a 10EE.
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Burnie/ Adelaide
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    53
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    How noisy are your machines? without knowing the state of things I didnt run it above 500 rpm (and added oil everywhere first) but it wasnt exactly quiet, nothing sounded terminal but the lower gearbox was pretty noisy, not howling but pretty loud.

    What does the taper attachment tray/cover look like? I can see its mounting screws but everything else is gone, also anything i need to know before dismantling the TTA?

    How do i drain the coolant sump or do I have to pump it out? I am dreading this since having to pull all the gross old wet durry stubs and botle tops out of the last machine i did this to.

    What upper speed do you use the hard-reverse? the manual just says lower speeds, but does that mean only in backgear? Do you use the motor as a break like they suggest? Can induction motors tolerate that harsh treatment? this does look enormous for its rating (4hp but its the same size as the 8hp driving our hydrovane)

    Does the speed selector have a firm detent? mine does not and it seems as though the speed selection is very vague?
    You can hear it but at 500rpm, it should not be 'noisy'. The bottom seal on mine was shot and so there was no oil in the box. I'd check the bearings and replace. From memory they are not anything special so not a fortune to do. The seal may need replacing too. I thought for some reason it was a 30mm seal but I was told it was 1 3/16 (which makes sense). You may have to use 30mm though as the imperial size could be hard to get.

    I'm in ADL at the moment so I'll take some photos of the TTA cover in the next day or so. Not difficult to make.

    I don't do the motor breaking even though the manual says you can, mainly because it requires a bit of skill/ coordination. The back EMF is likely to be fierce though. The contactors are 415V otherwise I would suggest that it may be something better done using electronics to control a contactor that does the plugging.

    The speed selector is a shaft driving a selector fork along another shaft. No detent - I find that if the number is in the centre of the window, it's good. The noise will soon tell you if the gears are not engaged.

    Michael

  7. #7
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    Oct 2011
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    Default TTA cover pics

    The cover is in two parts - sort of. There is one part that is hinged and then there is a clip on piece that attaches to the cross slide.
    (Damn self rotating photos)
    The first photo shows the clip on cover with the clipping points. On the cross slide are some spring loaded cones. Second photo is of that same cover in position, showing how the back slides through the hinged cover. Third photo is of the cover in place from a different view.
    IMG_0275.JPG IMG_0282.JPG IMG_0279.JPG
    The other part hinges and I just used some hardware shop hinges because the holes lined up. First photo is of the hinges and their attachment. Second is of the cover half hinged up while the third is of the cover fully hinged down. It also shows the spring loaded cones on the back of the cross slide.
    IMG_0277.JPG IMG_0276.JPG IMG_0278.JPG

    Pictures were taken on a phone, so a bit blurry. I discovered today that 'the shed camera's' battery is cactus. Buy a new battery or get another camera...

    Michael

  8. #8
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    Default

    Thanks so much Michael, you made a lovely job of that cover, I have the TTA half dismantled to clean and replace all the little roller guides ill post some photos when I get home.

  9. #9
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    Well a few paying jobs have got in the way but I made some more progress this week.
    I replaced all the many bearings in the taper turning attachment. It uses them on small cams as guides and ways.

    Also dismantled the saddle only to find the oil pump isn't pumping, yet to dig into that yet. Is priming a piston pump like this as simple as just filling it with oil when re assembling. Rookie question i know.

    Cleaning out all the oil hardliners and metering units was pretty crap but I now have the fault isolate to the apron.
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  10. #10
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    If the pump is copied from the 10EE it has a felt filter in it. it is a very simple design. No need to prime it but on the old round dial 10EE's the pump was only activated by the longitudional feed. The square dial 10EE's both long and cross operated the pump. The CVA used the round dial apron design from the outside at least.

    I am surprised you managed to clean the metering units, they are usually throw away once they get blocked.

    It takes a hell of a lot of backwards and forwards of the saddle to get the oil pumping all through the system. I replaced all the piping on mine as well as the metering units, which is a nasty job on it's own unless you are an accomplished copper pipe worker..

    I see they scraped the apron saddle interface on the CVA lathes as well.
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Also looks like you have some wear on the saddle which is to be expected.

    This is the saddle of the 10EE. Where it rubs on the tailstock ways is supposed to be clearance, although it was fitted with way wipers there.

    Also the apron saddle interface on mine was bowed, so I fly cut it flat and rescraped.

    20130921_135453.jpg 20130917_151230.jpg
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  12. #12
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    Thanks so much for those photos and information RC. Turned out to be the check valve in the pump had some gunk behind it.

    Also thanks for telling me about needing to burl the handwheel a thousand times I would have given up early without that info.

    Im going to blue up the bed and get an idea of the contact this week. Can I trust the top surface of the saddle to be true with the original saddle ways? Or will I have to find another datum.

    Rc would you mind sharing the order of operations you used on your monarch?

    Regards Ralph

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by caskwarrior View Post
    Can I trust the top surface of the saddle to be true with the original saddle ways?
    Given the effort that CVA put into getting everything just so, I think there is a very good likelihood you can. Check with a clock and see what it looks like.

    Michael

  14. #14
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    You can read all about my adventures in this thread OzEE rebuild

    I would suggest going this far though, my 10EE really was well worn in the saddle ways requiring a full rebuild.
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Well I now have the saddle and all the minor things like way wipers sorted. But I am left with two bad issues.

    I found one of the floating bushed gears which take drive from the spindle to the threading gears was completely seized in its surrounding bush due to galling. I made a jack based on photos from PM and pulled the spindle, pushed the gear apart and the galling is pretty severe. I can stone the external burrs off the gear but i think ill have to rebuild the front of the bore of the bush. im thinking about boring out about the first 1/8" and putting in a teflon wear ring. Ideas appreciated though. I also need to resurface the face of the bush which meets the back of the gear but im not sure how to restore the lost height, it may not matter in the end.

    This damage is definitely the result of oil starvation. The fit is very very close.

    The second issue is that when threading is selected both the feed shaft and leadscrew rotate which is bad but im not going to dig into in until the gear is resolved.

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