Thread: Toyota LSD design issues

Not sure if this is the correct area for this , however I have finally given up repairing the rear diff in my Landcruiser Ute , every 120,000 klms new kit as the clutches have worn out and are now floating around in the oil.

I am fitting an electrically actuated locker which should last for at least 400,000 klms.

I do a lot of kilometers in a year , averaging 110,000 or more as each day is usually 3-500 ot more klms to and from sites.

I could buy a bit bigger vechicle but $10k-$30k rego plus running costs prevents that at the moment.

And that is just for a KW body truck which could pull a trailer or two .

I dont even consider the Ford or Dodge offerings and the Hino, Isuzu etc are overpriced for what is offered .

My question is has anyone else done this and if so how did it turn out ?

Michael

Is it a costly repair to redo the clutches?

I think a diff rebuild including replacement of the LSD would be around the $2000 mark I would suspect. I get the impression it's not so much the money (although who wants to throw away $2K every year?) for Mike but more the inconvenience and the downtime.

Those annual 110,000Km must be pretty hard Km to be flogging out your LSD almost annually! I have never owned a car with a diff locker but I know of some people who have, be it a Detroit locker or the ARB air locker. It's my understanding that the main issue with a diff lock is that you strengthen the diff which then creates a weak point at another location. Whether or not this is the case with your pattern of driving I can't say. All the people I know who have installed these devices use them to go off road driving and to increase the off-roadability of their 4x4 and not for such circumstances as you anticipate.

Flogging out your LSD indicates to me you must drive on some fairly slippery/muddy roads at certain times of the year where you would be asking an awful lots of your diff.

Be interested to see what info others can offer. What are they asking for the diff lock installed?

Cheers,

Simon

That would be a lot of $$$ at $2000. Main reason I was asking was I am looking into buying a land cruiser ute at some stage. But i'm sure if DIY it would be a lot cheaper, mechanics don't come cheap.

Time wise a few hours after buying a kit , which has all bearings , gears except the pinion and ring gear, a spider and springs etc.

Backlash is set as per the service manual and I change the oil about a week after install as there is usually some crud hiding inside the housing.

I drive fully loaded and all types of roads , tracks etc dry and wet, not flogged but it works for a living.

The LSD kit is about $350, as opposed to the locker which is around $1500-00 , and I will fit it then I know that there is oil in it and the bungs are in place.

Michael

Originally Posted by Com_VC

That would be a lot of $$$ at $2000. Main reason I was asking was I am looking into buying a land cruiser ute at some stage. But i'm sure if DIY it would be a lot cheaper, mechanics don't come cheap.

It maybe even more. That was just a guesstimate. Sure you could save the labour by doing it yourself but unless you have experience and/or expertise in diff rebuilding, then it's probably not an option. My Prado has not seen a mechanic for over 150K as I do everything myself but I don't think I would have the know how to attempt a diff. It's a little bit more specialised, like an auto trans, I wouldn't pretend to know about them either.

Also, that 400,000Km warranty comes with whatever the price tag is. If you do it yourself then you would want to be confident you did it right.

Simon

I would have a go at the diff but never an auto as I'd never own one I think with the diffs you need to get the preload right with shims etc. Once you know the process shouldn't be too difficult.

Im a sportscar guy, not an offroading guy, so id like to ask a question as a means of posing an alternative and so ive got the opportunity to learn something...

Why dont you use a torsen diff? From my armchair, it seems to make so much sense for offroading. Can provide complete locking with wheelspin, does not require actuation to lock, will be completely unlocked on differential wheel rotation, requires much less servicing than a clutch pack lsd...

Can anyone answer that?

Toyota LSD diffs are crap, the LSD is usually buggered by the time you get it out of the showroom

I put front and rear Air lockers in my Prado, apart from some oil leakage past the seal which is a common issue they are great, I have only done 140k in 9 years, although most of them have been hard off road and outback kms, usually towing.

I recently fitted the Eaton E-Lockers to my Cruiser Ute that I am doing a complete rebuild on, I can't comment on how they go over the long distance as I have only driven it in and out of the shed a couple of times before stripping it for the next phase of the rebuild My cruiser Ute didn't have LSD as stock either.

A few photos of the diff rebuild, well the rear one anyway, I put the Eaton in the front as well. I also machined my own solid pinion spacer whilst at it.









































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Cheers Andrew

Andrew thanks for the write up/pics. Are you building it up as a rebuild or for some serious off roading?? If you're going serious, I'd laminate the diff housings to prevent them from bending. If you need advise PM me, I used to do them at Alltrac in Adelaide.
Kryn

I drive on all types of surfaces from Bitumen to bulldust , most of the wear comes from the load that is on the vehicle 24/7.

The suspension was upgraded to around 3900 kg and has engineering sticker.

Normal day is anywhere from 150 k to 1000 k not uncommon to use both tanks and a bit more if its windy.

I am just fixing one of the many cost cutting items that nearly all vehicles in this range suffer from.

I am not one to go crazy about features , a practical functional vehicle that is reliable for several years is what I require.
Current vehicle has only 392000 klms on it yet , its predecessor is in the region of 640000klms , it is being refurbished and is kept as the backup for the V8.

Contrary to popular belief it is not work out just some minor mechanical items like LSD diff needs rebuild or replacement , all brake discs need changing again , and some repairs to the tray from holes drilled by previous owners which allowd water to sit where it should not have.

All minor stuff , but time is again at a premium so I have purchased a complete diff , just remove the original and after checking ,fit a new one .

The old will be rebuilt and put either in the six or on the shelf for emergencies.

I hope to receive the locker either Tuesday or Wednesday ,might even put it in Wednesday night if I am around the shop.

Michael

Since you have it all sorted. How does the other driveline parts of the landcruiser handle the heavy loads all day, every day?

I actually seldom see a earthmoving/mine repair vehicle these days that is not a small 4500kg GVM truck. Although they are usually not 4WD and built very low to the ground so have issues with ground clearances. Small 4WD trucks seem to command a price premium.

I have already increased the load capacity , Lovells springs ,now around 3970 kg legal as it has an engineers plate, the diffs are the weakest parts of these , buy a decent locker and forget the 12-18 monthly diff rebuild .

I will drive it with just the diff locker installed for a while as I am also exploring the gearbox change which drops the engine rpm , after that maybe a remap to increase the torque by 50 to 75 % along with some hp increase .

If driven sensibly it will handle my requirements for at least another 6 to 10 years , I only use the kilometers as a service interval indicator.

I have the original diff out now ,the oil is a bit black and it stinks.

I am just having a break for lunch the change out the centre ,ad just as per specs and put it back in , fit axles and fill with oil , back it out of yard and start driving again . maybe change the oil if it need to be done after Easter.

Michael

Michael, what sort of gearbox change are you planning?? Going by reading your posts, are you a field maintenance mechanic, for heavy earthmoving macinerey?
Any chance of a pic of your rig please?
Kryn

Kryn,
I do several types of work , I have tapered off with the heavy gear as there are a lot of people jumping on the work , time will tell how some go as they can do the work but business wise ,a few are lacking in the necessary skills.

Some are undercutting by more than half and I haven't increased my charges for over ten years I can survive for a few more years .

I am concentrating on smaller gear but still need to carry a full load as I often have to attend to two or three different types of work while out .