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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    831

    Default Electric power feed for Vertical Milling Machine.

    Following on from this thread - //metalworkforums.com/f303/t200...hlhaupter-upa4 I am now modifying my old Vertical Mill to allow boring with power down feed. I will be using a 24 volt Planetary Gear Motor with a final rated output speed of 10 RPM.


    Measuring the torque required to turn the worm shaft that drives the sliding head down. This allowed me to choose a motor with sufficient torque that will also fit in the limited space available.
    Measuring Torque Required.JPG


    Cutting a 3mm keyway in the extended worm shaft.
    3mm Keyway in Worm Shaft.JPG

    Tooling used to cut 3mm keyway in 40 tooth gear.
    Tooling for 3mm Keyway.JPG


    The finished shaft and gear. I am working on the mounts for the motor and will post pictures as things progress.
    Extended Worm Shaft with 40T Gear.JPG

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    831

    Default

    This is the motor with 19 tooth gear and bracket fitted.

    50mm Gear Motor.JPG


    Motor and adaptor plate fitted to machine.

    Mounting Bracket.JPG


    This little speed control seems to work very well giving a full range of speeds from zero to rated motor RPM.

    Speed Control.JPG

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    Beautiful work Techno, what mill is that, it looks like a TOS to me but hard to be sure, will you still be able to turn the head clockwise with that motor attached?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    Default

    Can't rotate clockwise unless the motor is removed, CCW is not a problem. The motor is easily removed, just undo 4 screws.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    Default

    The machine is a German made Biernatzki, from the 1950's I think, I have not seen another one of this model.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Riddells Creek, Vic.
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    Default

    I don't have a recent photo of the machine but this is how it looked when I got it in 1991, after some repairs and a new paint job of course. I wish it still looked that good.

    Biernatzki.jpg

    It now has 3 axis DRO, Variable speed control via VFD, Electro Pneumatic Power Drawbar and Power Feed for boring.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
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    35
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    Default

    That is a beautiful machine, and a finish to be proud of, how long did that take?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    71
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    6,458

    Default

    Wonderful work as usual Lex.

    Serious looking mill too!

    Would it be possible to provide details of the motor and its controller? There is an abundance of geared 24 V motors on eBay but most appear to be suitable for low power applications. I have this whimsical idea of copying the table drive used by Dubied on their grinder. It would be great for pretend cylindrical grinding on the Hercus No.1.

    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Bob, Guys,

    Looking at your picture, this would be a perfect application for a car window screen wiper motor. Get one from your local scrap yard or car scrapper. I've built a couple of mill table drives using them. To control the speed just vary the voltage feed to them. Car seat and window winders could be pressed into service too.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
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    71
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    Default

    Thanks John,

    I had a look on eBay and for around $40 dollars I could acquire a new in the box wiper motor from your neck of the woods. Could prove a better option than something secondhand and doubtful from a local wrecker.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOR-AUDI...MAAOSwWD1ZtaoE

    Bob.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek, Vic.
    Posts
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    Default

    Hi Bob, below is the link to the 50mm diameter motor that I used. It is hard to get reliable information on the torque that these gearmotors can produce, even from the manufacturer, but the one that I am using is going OK although now that I have it all sorted I have realised that I could have gone for the 60mm which would have torque to spare. I have not been able to find any information on the speed control as yet because I can't remember which online store that I got it from.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ZGX50RHH...72.m2749.l2649

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Thanks John,

    I had a look on eBay and for around $40 dollars I could acquire a new in the box wiper motor from your neck of the woods. Could prove a better option than something secondhand and doubtful from a local wrecker.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOR-AUDI...MAAOSwWD1ZtaoE

    Bob.
    Hi Bob,

    All the salvaged wiper motors I have used have been in good condition, maybe a bit dirty on the outside, but having stripped and cleaned them, found little to no wear at all. An advantage is that these usually have two speed motors. A disadvantage if you can call it that is that these motors are designed to run in one direction only. The reason is that when run in the opposite direction, the worm presses against the internal motor bearings instead of the thrust bearing at the other end of the worm. Now I don't see this as an issue since the worm and the motor rotor are on the same shaft and on all the ones that I have disassembled have a thrust bearing at both ends.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default

    Hi Bob, Guys,

    Apologies to Lex for hijacking his thread.

    I've found some pictures I took of one of the wiper motors that I stripped and used for a mill table traverse. This one is a "Trico" brand and has a plastic worm wheel driven by a steel worm. The thrust bearing at one end of the worm is a steel ball, adjusted by a screw, the motor end on this one is a steel washer running against a brass or bronze bush that also supports the shaft. The tracks on the plastic worm wheel are the electrical contacts for the delay circuit and are not needed for this application.

    13062014-005.jpg 13062014-004.jpg 13062014-003.jpg

    I have some more pictures of the unit showing the drive shaft and mountings. If you want to see those let me know.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Wonderful work as usual Lex.

    Serious looking mill too!
    I have this whimsical idea of copying the table drive used by Dubied on their grinder. It would be great for pretend cylindrical grinding on the Hercus No.1.

    Bob
    Hi Bob I love the concept but l am wondering about the changing feed speed.
    For example at 0 deg of the crank you have 0 ft/min of stroke, as the crank rotates the ft/min of the table increases gradually until it reaches maximun at 90 deg of the crank and then the speed of the stroke will gradually slow to a stop at 180 deg of the crank, then repeat the process in the other direction.
    I am thinking that surface finish may be compromized due to a lack of constant surface speed.
    Then again am prone to under thinking and over thinking things.
    Cheers, shed

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Perth WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    Hi Bob I love the concept but l am wondering about the changing feed speed.
    For example at 0 deg of the crank you have 0 ft/min of stroke, as the crank rotates the ft/min of the table increases gradually until it reaches maximun at 90 deg of the crank and then the speed of the stroke will gradually slow to a stop at 180 deg of the crank, then repeat the process in the other direction.
    I am thinking that surface finish may be compromized due to a lack of constant surface speed.
    Then again am prone to under thinking and over thinking things.
    Cheers, shed
    Point taken Shed.

    A Dubied-like setup might work for surface grinding short workpieces. Probably not much chop for cylindrical grinding or more correctly, the "cylindrical grinding" I've attempted which has been between stops.

    Bob.

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