Thread: machine vice - to fill or not to fill, that is the question.

Gday All
Now that I have my mill working again after almost 9 years, this arvo I thought I had better pull out the machine vice I have and check it out.
I bought this off Ebay about 6 or 7 years ago for about $50 ( I think) but as the mill was not operational I have never really had a close look at or done anything with it.
Its a 150mm HiLo vice that has seen a lot of use and abuse by the look of it. As can been seen it has quite a few holes in it. None of them go right through, in fact, the deepest one is only about 12-15 mm (didnt really measure) It still has lots of material so I'm not worried about any reduction in strength. Trying to decide if I should fill the holes with Devcon or similar or just leave them.
By filling them it would give a nice flat base in between the jaws which could possibly be advantageous when setting jobs up. Leaving the holes just shows that the vice has been well used.
I dont have oxy anymore so have no intention of even considering trying to braze or weld fill them. Way too much hassle and potential problems.
It even has a scar on the top at the back of the fixed jaw that looks like it was done with a hole saw.

There is almost one full turn of backlash in the screw and at first I thought I would have to make a new nut for it but upon examination there is still lots of material in the nut so I'm not going to go to the trouble (and time) of making a new one. If it was a machine leadscrew or crossslilde screw then I would definately make a new nut but on the vice I can live with it the way it is. 2 TPI thread. Thats the coursest I have ever seen up close.
So any thoughts?
peter

I know there was and maybe still is, a Devcon 2 pack product specifically for filling holes.

We used it 40 years ago at the refinery for building up scoured out pumps. It has metallic dust filler and matches cast iron pretty well. It was pretty tough stuff and stood up to pressure and abrasion pretty well.
I went here
http://intertraders.com.au/Brand/DEV...ePriceList.pdf

and think it may have been Devcon plastic steel.

Be sitting down when you see the price.

Grahame

I would probably fill those with some kind of epoxy for sure, or drill out each hole and plug them with cast iron. I would probably only care about the ones near the fixed jaw as from the looks of it you don't have enough original surface to be able to trust a parallel.

I have one of these hylo' s and they are good solid vices, although you need to keep the gib snug or you get bad jaw lift. They have a clever system, that super coarse thread is part of a system by which you get fast jaw movement but high clamping pressure. There is a different finer pitch thread in the collar nut.

I picked up one of vices about 20 years ago, it also had a couple of dimples from stray drills but was nowhere near as bad as yours. I did actually fill them with Devcon metallic filler and it has been there ever since without any problems, they are very good vices. I will post a picture of the repairs tomorrow.

I think you will also need a new spring to get the high clamping pressure nut working.

Hi Peter,
As you now have the mill up and running, it won't be a problem to clean up the holes. I'd use some cast iron bar to fill the holes, particularly if the Devcon is as Grahame puts it "Be sitting down when you see the price."
Let me know what you need and I'll put it in the post to you.
Kryn

There are plenty of metal epoxy fillers around that will do a decent job of filling that.
Devcon is great stuff and has been round a long time (we used the aluminium version for aircraft work 30+ years ago), but was expensive even then. A quick check online shows that Blackwoods has a 57g kit for ~$13, which might just be enough. Worst case you could just get 2 kits.
I'm fond of JB Weld which is readily available. I've had one of the small tube kits for about 6 years that I use for the occasional repair. It seems to last and not go off in the tube after a couple of years like a lot of stuff does.
Selleys, Permatex, and I'm sure a lot of others all have steel filled epoxies that would do it.

Steve

A couple of years ago I used jb weld to fill a drill press table that had been abused. It has held up well and I am quite pleased with the results.

Pete

Yes, I'm thinking Devcon. I've used lots of that when I was on the tools full time. I also repaired a bit on my mill table when I first got the mill. Someone in its previous life had run a face cutter straight into the top of the table.
I suppose I should paint this thing as well.
peter

You can easily repair those holes with ordinary general purpose arc welding rods, provided you peen the weld while hot.

The vice will be made of nodular cast iron and that's why this is possible. You can't do this with common grey cast iron.

I was shown this by a professional industrial welder and used it on my drill press vice, which was three times worse than yours for moon cratering.

I used my air needle descaler for the peening.

Hi Rob,

I'm intrigued, first of all I have never heard of nodular CI, so I have learnt something new already! How can you tell it's nodular CI? Can you tell by the looks or do you know that particular vice?

Secondly, how would you arc weld that. Just fill weld it with a regular rod? I will defer my question on peening until after I do a google search on the subject!

Cheers,

Simon

Hi Simon,

Most vises are made out of nodular cast iron as I understand it, as it's much stronger and possibly more shock resistant.

Looking at broken cast iron is not really an indication of type as it always seems to break with a crystaline looking surface.

It's a suck it and see situation if you're not sure. The weld will either adhere well, or it will fall out if it's not nodular.

You simply build weld up in the hole the same way as filling in mild or fabricating steel. Special or low hydrogen rods are not required.

Peening is simply hammering the hot weld as soon as possible with a ball peen hammer or a needle descaler works well.

I'm pretty sure ChuckE2009 YouTube channel has a video on this where he welded a completely broken in half large vise back together with GP rods.

It's a good channel for all your welding questions: https://www.youtube.com/user/ChuckE2009

Cheers Rob

Thanks heaps Rob. Ill have a look at that.

Simon

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Turns out i have already seen a few of his videos anyway. I watched a video of his regarding full thickness butt welds before attempting a weld on 20mm plate.

His video style is relaxed and easy to watch.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=simonl;1929855]Turns out i have already seen a few of his videos anyway. I watched a video of his regarding full thickness butt welds before attempting a weld on 20mm plate.

His video style is relaxed and easy to watch.
/QUOTE]

Yes, it's a good channel with no BS to contend with.

Cheers Rob

The Devcon has held up reasonably well although it has chipped out a bit along the edge of the dovetail.

Hy Lo Devcon Repair..jpg

You probably should try to source a new spring before doing too much work on the vice, it will not work without a functioning spring.

Hy Lo Spring.jpg



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