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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Burleigh heads QLD
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    29
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    Nick mueller has some pretty great videos and stefan does a great two part introduction on scraping. you'll need a a surface plate, camelbacks a decent granite square and an assortment of indicators a hand or power scraper etc. I was intending to have people practice on smaller machine tools at club meetings and then lend out camelbacks under strict conditions so people could scrape in their larger machines at home as its pretty dam hard to get a hold of camelbacks in this country.

    the connelly book is apparently the bible of hand scraping but I only had a brief read while I was in denmark. you also have to remember there are a great many reference surfaces on mills that will point you in the right direction. A thick concrete slab is of course very important for a lathe otheriwse you're struggle to keep it leveled in. I've seen a few people cut out a section of their slab where they intend to put the lathe and dig an extra deep section for a thicker slab.

    Stefan's intro to scraping:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJXqHpSh3SE

    Nick mueller showing some alignment techniques:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzhmMp2fLSw

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
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    2,713

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    Nick mueller has some pretty great videos and stefan does a great two part introduction on scraping. you'll need a a surface plate, camelbacks a decent granite square and an assortment of indicators a hand or power scraper etc. I was intending to have people practice on smaller machine tools at club meetings and then lend out camelbacks under strict conditions so people could scrape in their larger machines at home as its pretty dam hard to get a hold of camelbacks in this country.

    the connelly book is apparently the bible of hand scraping but I only had a brief read while I was in denmark. you also have to remember there are a great many reference surfaces on mills that will point you in the right direction. A thick concrete slab is of course very important for a lathe otheriwse you're struggle to keep it leveled in. I've seen a few people cut out a section of their slab where they intend to put the lathe and dig an extra deep section for a thicker slab.

    Stefan's intro to scraping:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJXqHpSh3SE

    Nick mueller showing some alignment techniques:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzhmMp2fLSw
    You don't need a *camelback* straight edge. You do need one or more straight edges. The parallel beam types are perfectly usable with the added bonus that you can put a sensitive level on top of them - assuming the top & bottom are parallel.

    I've had over a dozen cast up and sold to various people over the years. Ditto for right angle squares. Once I get home in a few days I'll probably get more right angle squares cast up, maybe some more dovetail base straight edges.

    You definitely do need or have ready access to a granite surface plate and if you're doing a lot of scraping, a Biax scraper is almost essential too.

    None of this stuff is cheap in terms of time or money.

    As for slab thickness a lot depends on how solid the substrate is. I have a 4" reinforced concrete slab. There are machines massing up to 3.8 tonnes (heaviest one) sitting on it. The one I care most about, a Kearns S type HBM, has not moved at all as checked on a few occasions using a sensitive level. But - I laid the slab after backfilling and rolling the substrate with a heavy vibrating ride-on roller.

    Now something like a biggish slideway grinder needs its own deep & solid base to isolate from vibration as well as stability.

    PDW

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Shreveport
    Posts
    9

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    Looking for people join in with a group buy of surface plates and people interested in a machine rebuilding club on the gold coast, I've had a few people reply to my gumtree add and are keen on the idea. I've already got my biax which I'll be having rewound to suit 240v power plus an Australian plug put on along with my camelbacks to use in the group. Premise so far is that we would meetup and work on smaller projects like angle plates and machine tool accessories to practice scraping and eventually work up to scraping and rebuilding our lathes, mills shapers etc. I can supply my shop as a premise after some minor alterations and a general cleanup but I would have to either make some adjustments to my insurance or set it up through the mens shed association. Would be a good way to socialize with other hobby machinists and get second opinions on our projects. maybe even a group buy of a planer mill at some point to rebuild and turn into a way grinder to do small lathe beds. unrelated but I also often buy full lengths of 1045, 4140, D2 etc roundbar and usually throw out a lot of short lengths in the scrap so it would be a good way for hobbyists to get access to short lengths of materials for free or 300mm to 1000mm at the same rate as if they were buying a full length. if you're interested in either the surface plate group buy or the club my email is [email protected] and my number at the shop is (07) 5522 1726
    I certainly would enjoy that tremendously if you were anywhere near Northern part of Louisiana !
    I am a newbie to this whole amazing field of machining and scraping etc.
    I have resentful gotten a Shaper that I want to completely go thru and I have to pick up a 9" south Bend lathe , it could possibly be a 10" It's be so long since I have seen it. I used to work for this older Italian gentleman that had it in his garage before he made it into a parts house in the '60's and I want to restore it for his memory. And I know it needs scraping all over. So I would love to join a group like your talking about. I do have manual scrapers and most of ness. stuff but I could sure use some dovetail angles plates or whatever is correct term. Would like to get some castings and scrape them into masters but can't find any affordable around here.
    Well I sure hope you get a great group going I'm sure it will make fore a great time and we need to spread the dying Art of Scraping to as many as possible.
    Mike

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Brisbane
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    Anyone know of a good source for us Aussies for a carbide hand scraper? Or just the bits themselves?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Burleigh heads QLD
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    29
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3dprints View Post
    Anyone know of a good source for us Aussies for a carbide hand scraper? Or just the bits themselves?
    the scraping/rebuilding club is having a BBQ meet and greet on the 7th and possibly the 8th of October, Andy's bringing along two little containers full inserts so I'm sure he could spare one and I think I could whip up a scraper handle over a few beers if you're keen.

  6. #21
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    71
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3dprints View Post
    Anyone know of a good source for us Aussies for a carbide hand scraper? Or just the bits themselves?
    Phil (machtool) had a pile of then EDM cut from a sheet of carbide for us local scraper types. Really nice quality, same size as the Sandvik ones IIRC. I've got 3 or 4 of them.

    Since he got kicked off the forum, good luck getting any though. You could try getting in touch via Practical Machinist.

    PDW

  7. #22
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Brisbane
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    the scraping/rebuilding club is having a BBQ meet and greet on the 7th and possibly the 8th of October, Andy's bringing along two little containers full inserts so I'm sure he could spare one and I think I could whip up a scraper handle over a few beers if you're keen.
    Thanks! Actually I was trying to obtain one because I received your email and was planning on coming along. I'll just come along on the day then. Incidentally, do you think a little Taig lathe would make a decent first scraping project? I thought I'd bring it along since it's 20kg.
    I watched the Stefen Gotteswinter vids and they were very good.

    @PDW I might try, thanks. It certainly seems strange how hard it is to get stuff for scraping.

    Scraping looks perfect for a home shop guy for making a few surfaces flat, especially if you don't want to buy a grinder. I was checking out grinder prices and they're very expensive. An alternative if you have more time than money?

  8. #23
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    Jul 2017
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    Burleigh heads QLD
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    29
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    We could give it a try, are the ways hardened? I've been watching a few Russian videos of abrasive scraping using a pneumatic die grinder and a 2" cut off wheel which I'm really keen to try out. Also as to the BBQ a few people asked about having it as a sort of car boot sale/swapmeet as well for machinist/rebuilding related things as there are quite a few people with larger tooling that only own small mills/lathe and vice versa. Emma Ritson for instance had a crate of horizontal milling cutters delivered here from Sydney yesterday and I think most of these cutters dwarf her tiny machines.

    If you don't mind me asking whereabouts on the east coast are you located PDW? It'd be great if we could have an expert come along and if you're not too far past byron I could come pick you up or send someone down so you can have a few beers while you're here.

  9. #24
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Brisbane
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    We could give it a try, are the ways hardened? I've been watching a few Russian videos of abrasive scraping using a pneumatic die grinder and a 2" cut off wheel which I'm really keen to try out. Also as to the BBQ a few people asked about having it as a sort of car boot sale/swapmeet as well for machinist/rebuilding related things as there are quite a few people with larger tooling that only own small mills/lathe and vice versa. Emma Ritson for instance had a crate of horizontal milling cutters delivered here from Sydney yesterday and I think most of these cutters dwarf her tiny machines.
    That sounds interesting, I have done some more research and yes... I see the issue with hardened ways now. I don't know if the Taig has hardened ways, but now that I think about it a better first project would just be a few pieces of scrap metal anyhow.

  10. #25
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    gold coast
    Posts
    303

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    I can only make it on Sunday 8th, at this stage.

  11. #26
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    Jul 2017
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    Burleigh heads QLD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briangoldcoast View Post
    I can only make it on Sunday 8th, at this stage.
    that's quite alright, I think most people are coming on the saturday but not to worry.

    I had Owen pop round the other day and when we had a chat about the BBQ and I mentioned I'd invited PDW, he informed me that you lived in Tasmania so I feel like a right idiot.

  12. #27
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    that's quite alright, I think most people are coming on the saturday but not to worry.

    I had Owen pop round the other day and when we had a chat about the BBQ and I mentioned I'd invited PDW, he informed me that you lived in Tasmania so I feel like a right idiot.
    Most of the time I live in Tasmania. Some of the time I live in Sydney and I generally spend some time in Brisbane as well, working with one of my clients. It all depends on the year, the weather and how bored I am.....

    Off to the foundry tomorrow if things go to plan. I'm getting some more right angle squares and straight edges cast. Might take a new pattern with me as well if I get it done in the morning.

    PDW

  13. #28
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Brisbane
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    I milled a 20x4x470 piece of mild steel to test its flexibility and others warned me on the meet up day it does indeed deform permanently (though slightly) when you bend it. A mate recommended trying some car leaf spring steel from a car yard. Sounds like a decent idea to me, depending on how much I can get it for. I don't visit wreckers often.

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