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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Default When is a camel back straight edge too big?

    Was looking at a local S/H machine tool place today, a sneaky peek while taking the kids on an outing durning school hols. Im always on the lookout for a straight edge to perform some hand scraping since im slowly acumulating machines that really could do with a tickle up. The mill being the latest but a shaper is also waiting pateintly too.

    I have spied a nice camel back complete with timber protective sole for $350 but its 1200 long! The guy seemed keen to get rid of it so I may be able to screw him down a bit further.

    What are the practicalities of using this size straight edge on something that is maybe 650mm long?

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Was looking at a local S/H machine tool place today, a sneaky peek while taking the kids on an outing durning school hols. Im always on the lookout for a straight edge to perform some hand scraping since im slowly acumulating machines that really could do with a tickle up. The mill being the latest but a shaper is also waiting pateintly too.

    I have spied a nice camel back complete with timber protective sole for $350 but its 1200 long! The guy seemed keen to get rid of it so I may be able to screw him down a bit further.

    What are the practicalities of using this size straight edge on something that is maybe 650mm long?

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    If you don't want it then buy it & I'll swap you for a machined casting approx 630mm long, your choice of dovetail base or I beam type. Cash adjustment as required. Got a lot of the I beam type, I think I've got one dovetail base left and if not I can get some more cast.

    I can't supply my side of the deal until sometime in late August though as I'm in Sydney ATM, won't be back home for another 6 weeks or so (along with 60 kg of side & face cutters thanks to a recent Grays auction).

    Not that I need a 1200mm camelback SE, incidentally. I have a pile (literally) of 1m parallel flange type castings and one I've scraped in. I just like the things for their looks and it'd go well with the 1800mm one I also have.

    PDW

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    59
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    6,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    What are the practicalities of using this size straight edge on something that is maybe 650mm long?
    Fatigue - they are bloody heavy. Other than that, there is no reason why it could not be used.

    Michael

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
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    1,225

    Default

    Thats a bargain, just buy it. I paid about $450 for my 600mm dovetail straight edge at auction.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Default

    Hi Michael, the weight was my obvious concern but also the over hang. I realise a too small a straight edge can create issues if trying to overlap but I'm uncertain if overhang will create false transfer of the blue or not.

    PDW, I will send you a PM

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
    Posts
    543

    Default

    Like most tools you can't have too many but realistically you then need a surface plate big enough to check the accuracy of your straight edge and scrape it in if needed. Ideally you need straight edges of various sizes to deal with the various situations or lengths you might want to check. A 4 foot SE would be as big as most people would need as anything bigger needs two people to use or overhead support. One with dovetail on one side would be ideal. The price is fair.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by markgray View Post
    Like most tools you can't have too many but realistically you then need a surface plate big enough to check the accuracy of your straight edge and scrape it in if needed.
    Therein (har har) lies the rub.....

    Few of us have the space & right time/place combination to score a surface plate the size of RC's monster.

    I made my 1m SE castings that size because it was the practical maximum I could spot on the diagonal of my 900 x 600 granite plate. Since then I've traded up to a 1200 x 900 plate so can do a touch under 1500mm.

    But, as you say, they get heavy. 50 to 75mm longer than the length you want to check is about right IMO. I'd have no hesitation in cutting a parallel beam one down if that made it more convenient to use.

    PDW

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Burleigh heads QLD
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    29
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Therein (har har) lies the rub.....

    Few of us have the space & right time/place combination to score a surface plate the size of RC's monster.

    I made my 1m SE castings that size because it was the practical maximum I could spot on the diagonal of my 900 x 600 granite plate. Since then I've traded up to a 1200 x 900 plate so can do a touch under 1500mm.

    But, as you say, they get heavy. 50 to 75mm longer than the length you want to check is about right IMO. I'd have no hesitation in cutting a parallel beam one down if that made it more convenient to use.

    PDW
    out of curiosity where did you end buying your plate from? I'm located in Burleigh heads and I've been having a hell of a time looking for a 1600 x 1000 or even a 1200 x 1000. I've called one company in Molendinar twice now asking for quotes but I've still yet to hear anything back. I contacted a company in china and they quoted 699usd for a 1600 x 1000 x 200 0 grade plate which doesn't include freight, they also offered a cheaper price if I ordered multiple plates. I've got a biax coming from the states soon and I'm headed to sydney to pick up two camelback straight edges a 60" & 74" along with a double sided 48" knife edge camelback next week. Basically I have everything organized to start scraping my mill except for a plate big enough.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
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    6,216

    Default

    Freight will be the biggest cost importing a plate from China. You can pretty much double the price that the China company gives you. The port fees will be large. Used plates come up occasionally, even in Qld. There was a 1200mm square Starrett that came up on the Gold Coast a few years back, along with a 2500 X 1500 that came up in Brisbane around the same time.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  10. #10
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    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuschrist View Post
    out of curiosity where did you end buying your plate from?
    My 1200 x 900 plate came from an eBay auction in Melbourne. The previous 600 x 900 plate was part of a bulk import organised by Greg Quenneville some years back - IIRC we brought in 8 or 10 plates in one hit.

    As RC says, the freight bill clearing the docks in Australia was horrific.

    Your choices are pretty limited - import and pay, haunt the auction sites or buy one based on personal networking.

    PDW

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Burleigh heads QLD
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    I had a feeling that would be the case, is there anyone you guys know of that's looking for a plate as well that would want to import with me? or even better yet someone willing to sell a plate 1200 x1000 or bigger.

    The reason why I'm so desperate for a plate is basically because I had quite a bit of gunk in the sump of my russian mill seen below and when I filled it up from low to full very quickly one day I managed to dislodge some of the gunk causing the oil lines to my table to get clogged. I kept working the shot pumping oil because the table started to get quite stiff. I was in the middle of a huge rush job worth about 2k so I kept working eventually I realized when I felt the underside of the table that it was bone drive at which it was pretty much too late. I managed to remove the table disconnect all those dam copper oil lines clean them out reassemble. I pumped ATF oil through a few times to make sure there was nothing left in the lines, topped it up with hydraulic oil and reassembled the table. Now at this point it moved relatively freely in one direction and locked up in the opposite direction. since then I went to richard kings class in april and I've been trying to organize everything I need for a full rebuild. This was the main money maker in my shop so since then I've been pushing my Taiwanese Bridgeport clone to the max doing ungodly things that will likely be the death of its spindle bearing.
    At this point I'd be happy to load the table in my ute and rent the use of someone plates just to at least get the use of this mill back.
    15192591_10208628445084377_6011569625266319373_n.jpg17619441_10209620505485267_2054301705_n.jpg

  12. #12
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
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    Default

    These are problems that have been faced by many members here including myself. Rebuilding precision machinery properly takes a lot equipment and knowledge as well as practical experience. You can go the whole hog like myself ( and some others on this forum) but you can still do a pretty good job with basic equipment, common sense, enthusiasm, good planning and asking lots of questions. Especially if you are not going to do this all the time. Your biggest issue at the moment is that you are just starting and you have a lot of time pressure to get your mill done. I suggest you start a new thread about restoring your mill, ask lots of questions about how you intend to do it, take all suggestions in then formulate a plan of attack. Given you are in a hurry you may just have time to do the basics to start with and leave any back to factory specs rebuild to a later date.
    Good luck

  13. #13
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    Jul 2017
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    Burleigh heads QLD
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    Quote Originally Posted by markgray View Post
    These are problems that have been faced by many members here including myself. Rebuilding precision machinery properly takes a lot equipment and knowledge as well as practical experience. You can go the whole hog like myself ( and some others on this forum) but you can still do a pretty good job with basic equipment, common sense, enthusiasm, good planning and asking lots of questions. Especially if you are not going to do this all the time. Your biggest issue at the moment is that you are just starting and you have a lot of time pressure to get your mill done. I suggest you start a new thread about restoring your mill, ask lots of questions about how you intend to do it, take all suggestions in then formulate a plan of attack. Given you are in a hurry you may just have time to do the basics to start with and leave any back to factory specs rebuild to a later date.
    Good luck
    I'd be quite content to just scrape in the table and the table ways of the saddle along with the relocation of the leadscrew for the current moment. I've already invested a few thousand on a biax and straight edges not to mention the cost of my trip to the scraping class in denmark. At the end of the day the I could have probably just bought a working mill in the same specs for less money but scraping is something that I really want to pursue, to me the thought of taking old iron and bringing it back to its original specs or better is far more gratifying than buying Taiwanese imports. worst comes to worse I can just buy a riser block and keep using the bridgeport clone until I get the mill in a condition to start spitting chips again. Once I get my hands on a surface plate I probably will make a thread and post as I work through all the problems.

  14. #14
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
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    Default

    not to mention the cost of my trip to the scraping class in denmark.
    I notice you mentioned this in one of your PM posts. Would love to hear your thoughts and see any pictures of the class. We love pictures here.

    I've already invested a few thousand on a biax and straight edges
    Better watch out your jumping down a pretty big rabbit hole here, once it sucks you in its hard to escape. Good to see someone of your age interested in scraping and machine rebuilding and welcome to the forum. Hope to hear plenty from you over the coming years

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western NSW
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    543

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    Once I get my hands on a surface plate
    Have you got one in mind? Good ones come up occasionally but not so regularly in Brisbane.....but it does happen. One of the most experienced forum members picked up a 8x5 foot A grade plate in Brisbane couple years for not a lot of money. A new plate is pretty costly but at least you know it should be within spec. An older second hand plate can be cheap but has unknown wear. Calibrating plates is a whole new ball game and relapping them is not so easy. Ask around, monitor auction sites, see if there are any CMM dealers in Brisbane that might trade old machines and not want the tables.
    Good luck

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