Thread: New lathe questions (yep)

Nah,
I will just stick with a 1952 Hardinge HLV thanks.

Ken

Originally Posted by j3dprints

Really, that's all?

Horses for courses and it is your decision, but an example-

Say you needed some bolts with a weird thread form that are say 40mm long. To safely hang onto the material in the chuck you need 50mm, so if you made them individually you would need 40+50=90mm of material per bolt, as well as the time to cut how ever many blanks in the saw. At the end of it, you would have your bolts plus a pile of scrap pieces 50mm long that you might be able to use but then might not.

On the other hand, if the material would fit in the bore of your lathe, you could make all the bolts and not have those 50mm long bits left over as each bolt is supported by the next one. You also don't have to spend time cutting blanks first off.

A spindle bore is also handy for allowing parts to be put in a chuck for maximum support (for example turning down the end of a shaft on a CNC build to fit a bearing).

Everyone has their own views and does things their own way but I'd estimate that 75% of the time when I am making more than one of something I have material in the bore.

Michael

My Optimum has 6 or 9 auto speeds, not quite sure, but once the change gears have been assembled it's just a matter of turning the knob to one of the three positions to give you three ranges with the gear set. If that doesn't give you the speed you want you have to change the gear set again and then twiddle the knob to get another 3 ranges. That's on my lathe, the one you're looking at may well be different.

I've had two AL-51s and I can't talk them up enough. For a small machine they are an excellent choice. To add to that, the AL-51 is a very popular machine - worldwide covered by much re-badging. Being so popular, there are of course a plethora of web sites devoted to them covering pretty well any mod you could think of: reverse tumblers, variable speed, 4 bolt top slide, cam lock tailstock and so on.

I modded mine quite a bit, reverse tumbler being one of the mods as I needed to cut LH threads for motor cycles. A better teacher you wouldn't find. Google 9x20 lathe and you'll see what I mean. Steve Bedair's web page was one of the better ones, if it's still up. Steve moved on to the big machine shop in the sky a few years ago, so it may well have disappeared.

Having said that they do have their drawbacks, 21 mm bore being chief amongst them. Of course, no matter what spindle bore your machine has, a job will always come up where a larger spindle bore is required - nature of the beast. To overcome that I used dead/revolving centres combined with a dog, this setup works well but again, is limiting due to bed length.

The AL-51 is advertised as having a QCGB, that's only half the truth, you still need a fairly lengthy change gear train, similar to my Optimum. I'm not a fan of change gears, to damn fiddly, but most of the small hobby lathes utilize this setup. FWIW, I wouldn't go past an AL-51 as a first lathe and a teacher, modding the machine and solving problems with the small bore by using dead centres and dogs will teach you a lot.

As I said before, second hand Chinese machines are easy to off load if you decide to go bigger and better later on.

Lots of luck with whatever you decide on - difficult choice!

This is an example when you wish you have big spindle bore. The 960b made this 32x1.5 thread so much easier where as there is no possible way to do it on the Hercus ~25mm spindle bore.


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Originally Posted by j3dprints

Really, that's all? No one else have any +25mm common pieces they build? I could just put anything large in the bandsaw, and if I needed one edge flatter put it in the cut off piece in the mill with an angle block.

I have a 52mm spindle bore and a couple of times I have wished it was bigger. I machined a 65mm pin for a front end loader bucket arm pivot that had to have a the centre hole repaired. I had to set up the fixed steady (massive) so I could do this, just to skim 0.005" off the OD. It took a couple of hours to do a 10min job. Like Michael said "Horses for courses".

Dean

Can the larger hafco lathes - esp. the AL-1440s on offer at the moment - be separated easily form their bases for transport?

I assume you mean the cabinet you can buy as options for the lathes. If so, get some heavy RHS and make your own stand. The stands you can buy are rather flimsy sheet metal making it near on impossible to level using a machinists level. I made my own with built in adjustment, simple matter to level mow. The stand the lathe came with now supports a bench top, about all it's good for. This is mine, along with some other bits and pieces I made: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1698761733787694/

There are plenty of other designs on the forum, just use the search function.

Michael G and Oldneweng have some good points about spindle bore size. 25 -40 mm are a pretty good compromise for most. Of course it depends on your particular requirements which you probably wont realize until such time as the world of turning opens up to you and you find yourself turning up jobs you never thought you would or could... Lathes are very handy items in the workshop, indispensable some might say.

Originally Posted by j3dprints

Can the larger hafco lathes - esp. the AL-1440s on offer at the moment - be separated easily form their bases for transport?

I don't think any current Hafco lathes have this feature - headstock assured alignment by virtue of vees machined at the bottom, so that perfect alignment is achieved just by bolting it onto the bedways.
Instead they have a flat base that mates with a flat area on the bed, and fitting a loose headstock involves making adjustments that are not necessarily quick and easy.
There was a popular Australian made lathe however that had this nice feature.

Jordan

Originally Posted by sacc51

I assume you mean the cabinet you can buy as options for the lathes. If so, get some heavy RHS and make your own stand. The stands you can buy are rather flimsy sheet metal making it near on impossible to level using a machinists level. I made my own with built in adjustment, simple matter to level mow. The stand the lathe came with now supports a bench top, about all it's good for. This is mine, along with some other bits and pieces I made: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1698761733787694/

There are plenty of other designs on the forum, just use the search function.

Michael G and Oldneweng have some good points about spindle bore size. 25 -40 mm are a pretty good compromise for most. Of course it depends on your particular requirements which you probably wont realize until such time as the world of turning opens up to you and you find yourself turning up jobs you never thought you would or could... Lathes are very handy items in the workshop, indispensable some might say.

Yep, I made my own for my HAFCO mill. But the larger HAFCOS like the AL-1440s just come with them - it's not an option. Perhaps there's wiring in there, at least going to the foot brake?
If it's 8 bolts I have to undo.... great. Makes transporting something with a lower centre of gravity easier.

Michael G hit the nail square on the head with regards to bar stock: If the piece you want to turn has a diameter larger than the spindle bore then you have to cut a piece large enough for the item you want to turn + enough for the chuck to grip. A waste of stock because the little bit of cutoff is usually too small for anything useful. I have boxes and boxes of these cutoffs.

Originally Posted by PDW

It's a cheap way to provide power feed drive via a keyway without using the leadscrew threads. It's a kludge.

Come on. If it was actually an elegant solution, do you think the other manufacturers would use it? Universally, they do not. The ones who did phased it out decades ago, generally before WW2.

PDW

I don't know why it isn't more common. I just don't see anything bad with this system. Can you explain why it is a kludge?

Jordan

What's the best way to move a 700kg lathe?

A truck with a ramp and some dollies? Or a truck with a tailgate lift?

How much will it cost me in tie downs if I have none?

Getting it off the truck or ute without a ramp, ramp lift or forklift seems hard as the portable cranes can only lift so high and as you extend the boom the weight it can carry drops a lot.

Any idea on quotes for moving one about a 20 min drive? Just leaving it on the footpath. I've emailed a few movers with requests for quotes.

Look in the yellow pages for a taxi truck, sounds like a $2-300 job? somebody else here might have a better idea on price

The hafcos are fairly easily separated from their stands. Tends to be six bolts holding them down, if there's the foot brake then there's another two or so bolts, and an easily disconnected cable and hose from the coolant pump (if included)
Unloading the lathe, HIAB. Moving it, pallet jack (If it's left on a pallet) or using dollies.
If buying new, ask the seller if they do delivery, be surprising if they don't.
Tiedowns, be able to get away with two, though three or four for peace of mind.

I think he needs to upgrade his library a little, there are still plenty of lathes that use this 'kludge' arrangement. The Al- 51 and 250 are both good examples. It may not be 'elegant' but it is a good solution for small lathes that work well. No idea why it would wear prematurely, some even run the leadscrews in bearings. Comes down to personal choice really, nothing more.

Originally Posted by nadroj

I don't know why it isn't more common. I just don't see anything bad with this system. Can you explain why it is a kludge?

Jordan