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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Default ER32 Collet Chuck, Damaged Thread

    G'day again,

    Well, the final piece of the ER32 puzzle arrived from China and the first thing I noticed was a thick layer of rust on the drawbar thread and after cleaning it up I could see the first 5mm or so of thread look chewed up, I'm not sure what the pitch is so I turned up a 1.5 and a 1.25 just to see if I could get something to start in the thread, but no luck,

    I'm not sure what to do about it, it'll probably cost more to send it back for a replacement than what it's worth, not to mention the weeks of waiting, should I get the thread pitch from the supplier and attempt to run a tap through it? being the first portion of the thread I'm not sure that will even work, or maybe remove the first portion of visibly damaged thread and hope what's behind it is OK,

    What would you do?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Is this a drawbar? Is it imperial?
    I'd take photos, send to the supplier and see what they say. They may very well ship a replacement without return . Was this a purchase through eBay / aliexpress or another market place? Often suppliers are keen to avoid negative feedback, and when all is said and done, what would they do with a faulty drawbar anyway?

    -russ

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    BRISBANE BAYSIDE
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    90

    Default

    What morse taper is it?
    My ER32 MT4 has standard coarse M16 x 2.0 thread.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Melbourne
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    1,522

    Default

    Also you can probably run the tap through from the other end of the thread, ie the inside of the unit, youll need to hold the tap somehow though, I use those tap collets that can be driven with a socket set.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    81

    Default

    I have made claims through eBay, Aliexpress and Banggood. All have been good with a refund or replacement goods. I didn't have to ship anything back.
    If you communicate with the seller they will try to compromise with you, like a discount or something. You need to supply pictures of the problem. If you stick to your guns and escalate the problem they will come to the party.

    I therefore suggest you try to get a replacement free of charge. The part should be fit for purpose and at the moment it is not.

    Good luck.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Wodonga Vic
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    Default

    OK Thanks for the responses, to clear things up, it's a MT2 ER32 collet chuck purchased from eBay, the damaged brawbar thread is 10mm (unknown pitch) tapping from the other end isn't really an option, I would have to tap the entire length of the taper from the other end and I really don’t want to go down that road.

    It's almost impossible to get a photo of the damaged internal thread, I did try but my phone camera just won't focus

    I sent the seller a message just prior to opening this thread, waiting on their response

    Ben

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    3,112

    Default

    Ben I'd be surprised if your drawbar was anything other than a standard M10 thread, that's what's usually used on those MT2 tapers anyway. I'll have a look at some of mine and let you know if it's different.

    I'd expect it to be hardened, but you can check just with a file. If so I doubt a tap would clear it up. If it's just the very end, and it's not too hard, you may be able to bore out the part at the end that's damaged and allow your drawbar to reach good threads.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Wodonga Vic
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    38
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    Default

    Thanks Pete, I was able to leave a mark with a file so I guess it isn't hardened

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
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    72
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    3,102

    Default

    If t is a Chinese made chuck you got via eBay or similar, I can almost guarantee that it is not hardened at all. NONE of my (now many) chucks and adapters are.
    The only thread options for MT2 off the shelf are 3/8 UNC or M10x1.25 or more likely x 1.5.
    If you don't have a thread gauge to check, then turning off all but the end 10mm of thread and then cutting off 2/3 lengthwise (so you end up with a 1/3 pie slice of a bolt with 10mm of thread on the end), then poking into the hole, resting it parallel in the threads beyond the damage and checking if it fits without rocking will determine the pitch. I reckon a few of us would be able to do that by eye, without tools, just by comparing the pitch with 3 bolts.....
    You might have to clear out the rust and crud with a spring or tiny wire brush first.
    Re-threading will be the easy part. It's all soft....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    5,943

    Default

    I had one also, but with a stripped thread, the first 12 mm or so. When I went to cleanup the thread, the inner was actually a separate piece, I just drilled it out and pulled the rest of the threads out, like a coil spring. It was 12 mm and went to 14 mm, I got a longer bolt to take advantage of full thread.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    3,112

    Default

    Ben as it turned out I checked mine and only have one that is tapped. It's not a size I need a drawbar on. The one that was tapped was M8. Standard thread, but obviously not the same as yours.

    I checked the hardness using harness files. Unfortunately I'm not very good at using them, and sometimes I can get a very good idea to what I feel is quite an accurate RC reading (ie within a few RC), at other times I have no clue. Unfortunately this time was one of the latter! I'm pretty sure it was less than 40 RC, but was still somewhat hardened. The hardness files only go down to 40 RC

    A couple of things about a regular file test, the first thing is sometimes people remove a surface coating and think they've cut into the metal, when in fact the file has not bitten. I see that when I case harden things as it leaves a coating. The other thing is even if the file bites, all it means is that it isn't file hard, it may still be somewhat hardened. The moral would be to be a wee bit careful when it comes time to run a tap through if that's what you intend to do.

    I've repaired threads by picking up the thread. It's a bit fiddly but works well. You of course need to determine the existing thread by putting something pliable inside and taking a moulding or a print.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Wodonga Vic
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    Default

    Well, I can't seem to catch a break with this collet set I purchased, if it's not one thing it's something else, I took a drive down to Michael G yesterday after he generously offered to take a look at the damaged threat for me (thanks again Michael) and in no time he identified the pitch and picked up the good thread with a 10mm-1.5 tap,

    when I got home I turned up a new drawbar and discovered that the collet chuck has been taped crooked at the factory (not surprising considering my first issues) at first I thought I might have deflected the work when I plunged the parting tool in to cut the relief for the thread, so I parted off and started again being extra cautious but had the same result.

    Then I thought I would check the runout at the tool shank by firmly placing the collet chuck into the spindle without the drawbar, I was expecting maybe a couple of thou but returned a reading of 9 thou! so I swapped out the 10mm collet and endmill for an 8mm and got the 1.5 thou runout I was expecting

    So it looks like I have a dodgy collet chuck and at least one dodgy collet and the fun job of going through the other 18 collets to make sure they are OK

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cockatoo Vic
    Posts
    84

    Default

    I buy a lot of this sort of stuff from China via ebay.

    If you have not already done so, lodge a faulty goods claim with ebay. Do not send feedback. Good or bad.

    That most times gets a good response from the seller. And if not, ebay have never failed to overrule and give a full refund.

    Do not close the dispute with ebay until the seller makes a full refund (or ebay does) as sometimes they will promise action if you close the dispute and then reneg.

    All sounds like a bit of a pain, but it really is no big deal. Ebay have never let me down.

  14. #14
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    Default

    I received a full refund for the collet chuck, they initially offered a partial refund but I mentioned that I still have to find a replacement, we came to an agreement that I wouldn't leave negative feedback and they would give a full refund, so I had a win there.

    I don't yet know what to do about the collet set, I can't be 100% sure they are faulty until I have a reliable collet chuck to read off, and that could be a while

    Ben

  15. #15
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    Default

    Ben I'm having a bit of trouble following your latest update. Bearing in mind I have yet to finish my morning coffee, and I got stung by bee in the face, so maybe that's affecting things

    From what I understand, Michael repaired the drawbar thread (it was M10 x 1.5 as predicted), but the thread has runout. That shouldn't really matter, just so long as it's not so bad that you can't start your drawbar in it. A Morse Taper is quite a long taper, and it self locking. That mean's it shouldn't be affected by anything else in front or behind it in so far as accuracy. It either locks or won't. Obviously having a screwed up drawbar thread isn't ideal, but shouldn't be a biggie. Put it down to cheap vs expensive and move on.

    The other issue you're having is with a least one collet? Have you used ER collets previously? You're aware of the correct way to install the collets in the nut? From what I could understand, you installed a 10 mm collet and end mill and got 9 thou runout. You then swapped those two for an 8 mm collet and end mill and got 1.5 thou runout? I'd suggest going back and rechecking the 10 mm with another end mill and reinstalling the collet a few times to see if that error repeats. I've bought a number of different cheap collet sets and they've all been quite accurate. 9 thou is a lot, but you find the high point of the runout and tap the NUT lightly to shift the collet in the chuck. The ER series are short tapers so will shift within their tapers. I doubt they would move that much, but I've got them to zero runout with a 0.002 mm indicator with a few taps of the nut.

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