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18th Sep 2017, 06:57 PM #31Senior Member
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- Jun 2012
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- melbourne
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I've got 8 different ER collets, from ER11 up to ER40, for lathe and on iso 30 taper now. I've bought them randomly over the last 4 years, new and cheap except one set which came in a wooden box and was a german make. Every single one, including the german one, had the same problem with the collet nut. If you look at this picture you can see the left one is a new one I haven't modified, and I think it isn't machined right - there is a ring where there shouldnt be one. Hard to see because its all black but that ring sticks out far enough to stop the collet fitting into the taper at the front of the nut. On the right one, you can see I simply machined it off, where its silver.
1.jpg
In the next photo you can see how the collect sits flush in modified one on the left and the collet is back a bit on the new one. The ring is actually offset as well, its not concentric to the rest.
2.jpg
Because this has happened for me with all 8 collect chucks, I thought I must be stupid and not know something. I couldn't understand why no-one has ever mentioned this, and just assumed I don't know something they all know - maybe there is some special reason for the extra ring in there. I know I'm unlucky enough to get every faulty one in melbourne, but maybe, just maybe, all manufacturers use the same cad file (and just scale it for the different sizes) and its wrong. Why no-one else ever mentioned it worries me, but if it works, why not remove the ring? I've had no problems with mine in use, once I removed the ring.
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18th Sep 2017, 07:07 PM #32Golden Member
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- Jan 2016
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- Wodonga Vic
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- 38
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- 633
If you push the collet in on an angle it will travel past the offset ring and "snap" into place in the nut, doing the reverse will get it back out of the collet nut. the offset ring had me confused at first too
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18th Sep 2017, 07:13 PM #33Senior Member
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- Jun 2012
- Location
- melbourne
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- 341
Ha ha, well that explains it, I was being stupid. I still think thw first one woildnt let the collet in and then ive juat removed them anyway. What is the purpose of thw ring?
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18th Sep 2017, 07:17 PM #34Golden Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
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- Wodonga Vic
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- 38
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- 633
I'm starting to think the main purpose of that ring is to cause frustration and sore fingers trying to get the collet back out, I like the idea of removing it altogether.
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18th Sep 2017, 07:25 PM #35Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- melbourne australia
- Posts
- 3,228
I just tap the collets out of the nut with a plastic mallet.
Chris
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18th Sep 2017, 07:55 PM #36Philomath in training
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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- 59
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- 6,541
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18th Sep 2017, 08:07 PM #37Golden Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
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- Wodonga Vic
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- 38
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- 633
Hi Michael, you wouldn't happen to use ER32 collets in your workshop?
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18th Sep 2017, 08:44 PM #38
Getting that Déjà vu feeling yet?
I was in the same position some years ago. Michael helped me then as well. I can tell you that the ring is a good idea. If you remove it the collet will stick inside the chuck. A light tap on the edge will release it, but it is much easier to use the ring. The collets come straight out of the nut if you push on the right side. Mark the nut on the side to push from as Michael says.
Dean
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18th Sep 2017, 08:49 PM #39
I recently had an issue with a Chinese seller. After multiple times of asking for a return address in China I said I would just return it to the Sydney address it was sent from. "How about you just send it to the Sydney address then friend. What do you think of this?" I won't repeat my answer. The only address I had was the return address on the parcel, except for one in Chinese script on the returns page. EBay refunded me and they are going to chase the buyer. It was meant to be sent from China, but came from Sydney instead. I think they were interested in his refusal to provide an address despite multiple requests for one.
Most times I have just been refunded tho. This was the first proper return I have done. I have found Chinese sellers to be pretty good overall.
Just to be clear I was suggesting opening a dispute with Ebay. I know they are interlinked but not Paypal.
Dean
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18th Sep 2017, 08:54 PM #40Golden Member
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- Jun 2007
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- Vic
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- 48
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- 544
I am with Michael, that "lip" on the nut is to pull the collet out of the holder when you undo. I insert on an angle with the thicker side goes into the groove first.
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18th Sep 2017, 09:43 PM #41Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
- melbourne
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- 341
Thanks, now i know I can try the unmodified ones. I quite liked the way the modded ones worked though. With the er40 in the mill especially, and with a heavy cutter in it, I can loosen the nut with one hand on the brake, one on the spanner, and I know the cutter won't drop out until I tap it with a rubber hammer. Is there a risk it will drop out as I unscrew the nut and the collet opens before I have a hand free to catch the cutter?
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18th Sep 2017, 10:06 PM #42Distracted Member
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- May 2010
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- Lower Lakes SA
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- 58
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- 2,607
How much runout do people think is acceptable - or realistic - from a chinese collet chuck? Say 50mm out. I'm considering returning one.
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19th Sep 2017, 07:56 AM #43Philomath in training
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
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- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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- 59
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- 6,541
I have a few but not the full set (enough for the cutter grinding jig).
I think if you have 50mm run out you are in trouble. This is from H&F and they are claiming 0.02 to 0.03 although I suspect the collets on ebay are a grade or two down on this again.
I'd check the concentricity of the chuck bore - it may be that you can fix it with a little emery or a light skim.
Michael
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19th Sep 2017, 09:25 AM #44Distracted Member
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- May 2010
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- Lower Lakes SA
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Michael, I meant run out measured 50mm away from the collet. Where do they spec them, at the bore?
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19th Sep 2017, 09:35 AM #45Philomath in training
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- Oct 2011
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- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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- 59
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Yeah, I guessed that but could not resist
From the diagram, it looks like they put a piece of ground bar stock in a collet and then check run out at distance L from the collet face.
For checking the bore I'd just get a DTI and put it directly in there, at the front and then at the rear as it could be poorly ground. Perhaps would not hurt to blue up the bore and then do a contact test with a collet, see if there are any lumps and bumps that are kicking things out.
Michael
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