ER32 Collet Chuck, Damaged Thread

[NedsHead]

Hi Pete

Bad luck about the bee to the face, at least it wasn't a European wasp I guess..

That's correct, Michael repaired the thread for me but it has some runout, enough to make it difficult to centre the other end of the drawbar, I thought it might have an affect on seating the taper but now I'll use it, if I have to I could make the drawbar in two pieces with a joint.

I haven't used ER collets before, my procedure is to "snap" the collet into the nut and then screw it on to the chuck and insert the tool, the collet face seats firmly against the back of the nut.

I wasn't aware that I might need to "tap" the nut lightly, that could be the cause of my reading, I did install the collet a couple of times and get the same reading though.. but I'll try tapping the nut to see if that fixes the problem.

To date I have been taking my reading with the collet chuck firmly placed into the spindle without the use of a drawbar, would that make any difference? I can't imagine it would.

Ben

[Michael G]

I haven't used ER collets before, my procedure is to "snap" the collet into the nut and then screw it on to the chuck and insert the tool, the collet face seats firmly against the back of the nut.

That sounds like you are doing it properly

To date I have been taking my reading with the collet chuck firmly placed into the spindle without the use of a drawbar, would that make any difference?

The draw bar will seat the chuck in the taper, so you need to measure with the draw bar in place, as you would if you were making a cut. (I though the tap was pretty square when I ran it down the thread so I would not have thought the issue was there). The other thing is to make sure both bits of the taper are clean - a small piece of swarf/ dirt/ something will throw things out.

Michael

[Pete F]

Hi Pete

Bad luck about the bee to the face, at least it wasn't a European wasp I guess..

That's correct, Michael repaired the thread for me but it has some runout, enough to make it difficult to centre the other end of the drawbar, I thought it might have an affect on seating the taper but now I'll use it, if I have to I could make the drawbar in two pieces with a joint.

I haven't used ER collets before, my procedure is to "snap" the collet into the nut and then screw it on to the chuck and insert the tool, the collet face seats firmly against the back of the nut.

I wasn't aware that I might need to "tap" the nut lightly, that could be the cause of my reading, I did install the collet a couple of times and get the same reading though.. but I'll try tapping the nut to see if that fixes the problem.

To date I have been taking my reading with the collet chuck firmly placed into the spindle without the use of a drawbar, would that make any difference? I can't imagine it would.

Ben

It may have been a European wasp, I'm not sure. I was cycling between Sydney and a town up past Katoomba, and was descending at a good clip at the time. She got trapped between my sunglasses and the bridge of my nose. I didn't ask to see her passport as I was trying to get her out of there, but she could have been Euro-trash She wasn't happy to be there is all I know!

That's how the collets are installed, but as far as tapping the nut, you shouldn't need to do that, it's just a way to get them even more concentric. A trick I picked up from a short post in MEW magazine, and sure enough it works well. It's really just to get the last poofteenth of runout out. I rarely bother, but it's a good trick nevertheless.

As Michael said, I would install everything as if you were going to use the machine. Michael does excellent work and if he thought he ran the tap in straight I'd be inclined to trust it was indeed good. I'd thread a 10 mm shoulder bolt or similar in there, put your taper on some form of Vee block, and see if there's any massive runout there.

[NedsHead]

Michael does excellent work and if he thought he ran the tap in straight I'd be inclined to trust it was indeed good.

I am in unfamiliar territory here, the probability that the cause of my issues are something that I'm doing wrong are quiet high I'll keep plugging along and see where I end up

[Ropetangler]

Michael's suggestion re a bit of grot either in the collet chuck or between the collet and end mill would be where I would look as a first move. Either a bit of muck or a burr could easily account for your runout, interior and exterior tapers of chucks and collets and of course any tooling needs to be very clean and free of any burrs to avoid inconsistent results such as you are experiencing, good luck
Rob

[KBs PensNmore]

If you ask Michael very nicely he might come for a drive and suss it out, or let you know what isn't being done properly.
Kryn

[NedsHead]

G'day Kryn

I'm thinking of taking video of my set up and everything I'm doing from beginning to end and uploading it to YouTube and providing the link to the forum, that way someone might pick up on any faults without wasting to much time. I'll get back in the shed tomorrow and have another go at it first

[Pete F]

When something unexpected happens (or if something is critical), see if it repeats. If it repeats consistently, and there's been no major Bozo moments, then the chances are you've found the source of the problem. So in other words fully assemble the setup a couple of times, wipe it clean etc, and note where the high point is. Mark your collet and try inserting it in different positions. Look for patterns. .... Groan. Always looking for patterns!

[NedsHead]

After some time and therapy I have returned to battle the ER32 collet system issues, I did as Pete F suggested and marked the high spot and then changed the position of the collet chuck in the spindle adapter, doing this would change the amount of runout, at one point I was able to get just 0.001" runout but moving the collet chuck from this position would give the usual 0.005" - 0.01" runout, also returning to this 0.001" "sweet spot" and moving just the collet within the chuck would change the amount of runout.

The face of the collet chuck looked a bit rough with tool marks so faced it of thinking this could be the cause of the error but that didn't help, maybe it was not a good idea?

I'm not sure what to try next, I would like to at least rule out the collets as being the cause (or part of the cause) if anyone has an idea on how I can do that, then I can focus on the collet chuck and maybe order a new one if I have to, things are a bit tight at the moment so I'm hoping I can fix this without spending much.

Ben

[sacc51]

I buy a lot of this sort of stuff from China via ebay.

If you have not already done so, lodge a faulty goods claim with ebay. Do not send feedback. Good or bad.

That most times gets a good response from the seller. And if not, ebay have never failed to overrule and give a full refund.

Do not close the dispute with ebay until the seller makes a full refund (or ebay does) as sometimes they will promise action if you close the dispute and then reneg.

All sounds like a bit of a pain, but it really is no big deal. Ebay have never let me down.

I've always found the opposite: contacting the seller always ends up in silly offers of 50% discount on an item you can't use. Paypal are hopeless they always side with the seller. I don't bother with contacting them anymore I just leave negative feedback and then watch them jump. Offers of a resolution come in very quickly, usually in the form of a full refund or replacement with no mention of returning the faulty item.

Only had one who wanted the item returned - a Cree torch. Torch was $13.65, return postage was $13.75, of course I didn't bother so I lost that one. Paypal were hopeless!

Good to hear what others have found useful though, the Chinese are a canny bunch...

[KBs PensNmore]

Ben, would there be someone close to you that you could borrow a set of collets and chuck from to see if the problem is still there, or take your set to someone to try in their mill?
Kryn

[Greolt]

I've always found the opposite: contacting the seller always ends up in silly offers of 50% discount on an item you can't use. Paypal are hopeless they always side with the seller. I don't bother with contacting them anymore I just leave negative feedback and then watch them jump. Offers of a resolution come in very quickly, usually in the form of a full refund or replacement with no mention of returning the faulty item.

Only had one who wanted the item returned - a Cree torch. Torch was $13.65, return postage was $13.75, of course I didn't bother so I lost that one. Paypal were hopeless!

Good to hear what others have found useful though, the Chinese are a canny bunch...

Just to be clear I was suggesting opening a dispute with Ebay. I know they are interlinked but not Paypal.

And not directly messaging the seller. Ebay passes on the message at first but you are dealing with Ebay, not the seller directly.

I have often been offered to resend or 50% refund. I decline. As I said Ebay have never let me down. They just override the seller and do the refund.

In the last week alone I have had two refunds.

This only rarely happened in the past but Chinese sellers are failing more often these days.

My point is that Ebay have never failed me to make it good.

[NedsHead]

Ben, would there be someone close to you that you could borrow a set of collets and chuck from to see if the problem is still there, or take your set to someone to try in their mill?
Kryn

I've thought about taking them with me to TAFE and asking a lecturer but they look busy enough as it is, I don't feel right about asking but I'll consider it as a last option.

I'm up in the northern suburbs of Adelaide if there's anyone with an ER32/MT2 setup available to help me test these collets/chuck.

Thanks,

Ben

[pipeclay]

How much did you pay for it, if the price is in my ball park I have a new one here that I don't use, you have the choice if interested buying it or paying postage each way to try it.

[sacc51]

Just to be clear I was suggesting opening a dispute with Ebay. I know they are interlinked but not Paypal.

And not directly messaging the seller. Ebay passes on the message at first but you are dealing with Ebay, not the seller directly.

I have often been offered to resend or 50% refund. I decline. As I said Ebay have never let me down. They just override the seller and do the refund.

In the last week alone I have had two refunds.

This only rarely happened in the past but Chinese sellers are failing more often these days.

My point is that Ebay have never failed me to make it good.

I thought it was my imagination, I've noticed the Chinese sellers are getting a little difficult and a little less helpful, must be giving them too much money!