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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    90
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    43

    Default Four Facet Drill Sharpening and Grinding Wheel Dressing

    First a big thank you to all that have viewed my videos showing my grinding rests being used. This I can see by the large numbers on my website and YouTube stats.

    I have now come to the final two, “Four Facet Drill Sharpening” and “Wheel Dressing”. Links here. Metalworking Tool and Cutter Sharpening 1 .

    My next videos will be in a series which I call “Made in an Afternoon” and consists of small projects on my website . Typical example here. Marking Out Gauge 1

    However, this time of year is a very busy period in the garden for me, added to which, the local Salvation Army, of which I am a member, have asked me, due to my cabinet making interests, to make some simple items for their building refurbishment program.

    Because of this, I will not be issuing any more videos for a few months.

    Harold

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    3,112

    Default

    Thanks Harold.

    Please don't take this as criticism, but hopefully constructive feedback. I 3D printed your 4 facet drill sharpener to test it before committing to metal, as it's clearly faster and easier to print it! It obviously wouldn't have the longevity of steel, but was otherwise fully functional. I thought if I liked the sharpener I'd make it in steel as per normal. I haven't yet got around to making your tool rest, it's on the board to do, but I have a Clarkson T&C grinder, so I will use the T&C grinder for this type of work. For anyone who doesn't have a T&C grinder I would list Harold's rest as an absolute "Must Have" project. It's quite a simple project and something that will be used pretty much daily in the workshop. I have a commercial tool rest on one of my bench grinders and Harold's is significantly better from what I've seen of it (or them in fact as there's two versions).

    As far as the drill sharpener, I found it all rather fiddly to use to be honest. In fairness I was trying it on smaller diameter (say 1/4") drill bits and maybe I should give it a go on these larger bits that won't fit in my drill sharpener. Indeed I will make a point of doing so, as I do like the 4 facet concept. I think the world is crying out for a simple to use, collet based 4 facet drill sharpener where the drill is automatically aligned with a pin or some form of clamp. The Drill Doctor sandwiches the drill between some spring steel clamps which aligns the flutes at that point vertically. It's a very elegant solution, and so long as the helix of the drills doesn't vary, and I don't think it normally does at least within the same manufacturer, doesn't need to be changed irrespective of changing drill sizes. It's highly repeatable and more than sufficient for a home shop. There's a lot I don't like about the Drill Doctor, not the least of which is the price for what it is (at least in Australia for a 750X), but their method of bit alignment is very good in my opinion.

    Mark has an excellent post on drill sharpening I believe he is adding to as time allows, and one of the points I made there is a drill sharpening system needs to, arguably most of all, be fast and convenient to use. If it's not, it won't be used and then it becomes pointless. Pardon the pun. There's been a number of attempts at 4 facet drill sharpeners, and the problem is the geometry is rather fiddly as it needs to be very precise, however I do think there should be a way to align the drill that is essentially automatic and would make the whole process very quick and easy to use.

    I like your work Harold, and I think you have a Mk II 4 facet drill sharpener in you just bursting to get out. I've been an MEW subscriber for many years*, it went through a bit of a bad patch there a while back, but is now thoroughly back on track. I think you're doing a great job on the videos as they help explain things a little better, or at least in a different format, to just the text.

    * The latest issue of MEW arrived in my mailbox yesterday as a matter of fact, and I see our own Michael G had a starring role (yet again) in the magazine. I have to finish reading the piece, as sleep got the better of me, but well done Michael!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    UK Hertfordshire
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    Default

    Thanks Pete for your complements regarding my grinding rests. I am though jealous of you having a Clarkson T&C grinder, but of course, if I had one it would have been very unlikely that I would have thought of dreaming up my rests, which, not trying to brag, would be a loss to many workshop owners. I am surprised you are considering making one having the Clarkson.


    As to a MKII four facet device, doubtful, as at a few weeks short of 84, the list of things to do gets longer, not only metalworking, and being realistic, time shorter.
    Once again thanks!
    Harold

  4. #4
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    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    I think the rests are extremely good Harold, though I'm not sure if I could justify the more elaborate version. While a linisher tends to be my "Go to" tool these days, and there would rarely be a day I wouldn't use it, I still use a bench grinder from time to time, and it is almost useless without a good quality rest. As mentioned I use a commercial rest, but it is somewhat flimsy compared to yours. I probably have a better quality belt grinder/linisher higher on the list of priorities, but the HH rest was always on my list, and I rarely scratch things off it until they're done. It's all part of my OCD

    For those who may not be aware, Harold published the plans for two bench grinder rests. The first (IIRC?) was a relatively complex one and essentially a miniature dovetailed compound table. It's fitted with verniers on the slides and, with the appropriate accessories, is capable of many of the same functions as a tool and cutter grinder. It wouldn't be a beginner project in my opinion, but maybe an intermediate project that wouldn't be beyond most people with a few projects behind them.

    The other rest is a much simpler version and would be a highly useful beginner project that would get a lot of use. I'll probably build a hybrid as I want a very solid base, but not necessarily the precision adjustment capabilities.

    I hope I can change your mind about the MK II 4 facet drill grinder Harold. I think it would be a good project to put that experience to work.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2016
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    Thanks again Pete, I agree the advanced rest is not a begineers project, it was though last in my Complete Course which starts with Tee Nuts and finishes with the Advanced Rest via projects that gradully become more involved. I will keep in mind the Mk11.
    Harold

  6. #6
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    Feb 2009
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    moonbi nsw Aus
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    364

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    Harold, you are an inspiration to us all!! Your contributions over the years for blokes to make metal objects easy to use, using your methods as well as the large number of "projects" so well thought out and easily accessed. I hope that I will be as motivated as your self when I am in my 80s.
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

  7. #7
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    Sep 2016
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    Thanks Rod. Such comments have done much to keep me going for some 27 years, starting as a result of a car accident (not my fault) and being off work for 7 months. Not knowing what to do I wrote an article about a milling cutter chuck I had made and sent it to the “Model Engineering” magazine and it all started from there. Even good things can come out of the bad.



    Harold

  8. #8
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    Oct 2007
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    Hey there's a coincidence, I had 7 months off work too, also as a result of an accident. I made a daughter.

    The perils off too much idle time

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    I think the world is crying out for a simple to use, collet based 4 facet drill sharpener where the drill is automatically aligned with a pin or some form of clamp.
    Have just made the HH drill bit jig and was pondering the same issue.

    How about 2 long vee blocks with the drill bit held between them. Drill is clamped between the vee blocks by countersunk cap screws, or any other clamping system that doesnt protrude

    To grind the other face simply turn the whole assembly upside down.

    The 59 degree angle can be supplied by an angled plate as per HH jig or by bars at 59 degrees.

    Instead of changing the angle of the plate , leave it where it is and slip a wedge underneath it to make the change from 25 to 10 degrees.

    Have attached some quick sketches will do some more in next few days.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #10
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    Nov 2010
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    Gippsland Victoria
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    If you put either a square or a hex ER32 collet onto the HH base plate then all you have to do is turn the collet over, drills are held and centred and indexed by the collet block. I guess that's what Pete meant but I didn't understand properly.

    Another way might be to join a Jacobs chuck onto a square or hex block, drill out the back of the chuck to minimise overhang and allow the drill bits to be held closer to the business end ? Depends if you have a loose drill chuck lying around.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2010
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    Default index off the spanner flats ?

    I don't have any collet blocks. Was looking at my ER32 chuck - and wondered about indexing off the the spanner flats.. Probably 7vral ways of doing it. Photos attached of 2.

    Could put a bit of cellophane over the collet slits to stop grinding dust getting in and could also protect the mt taper as well. Opportunity to use a mini draw bar if necessary.

    Off to google and see what other people have done.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
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    Here's my effort. Classy, no? The problem is it won't hold drills straight. Seems like they cock when held by the flutes. And there are errors in the collets too. So symmetry is elusive. I'm fed up with it to be honest. I've got a TCG, I thought. How hard can it be?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Here's my effort. Classy, no? The problem is it won't hold drills straight. Seems like they cock when held by the flutes. And there are errors in the collets too. So symmetry is elusive. I'm fed up with it to be honest. I've got a TCG, I thought. How hard can it be?
    Classy yes ! ............... thats a cunning idea to use the slitting saw as an index.

    Could you tolerate a bit of overhang and grasp drill bits on the unfluted shank in the collet - take light cuts to avoid problems with the overhang ?,

  14. #14
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    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Hi Guys,

    One issue that I have found, particularly since making "John Moran's" 4-6 Facet drill grinder, is that the drills are not always straight and on some the flutes vary from one edge to the other ! All my old drills don't seem to have these problems, but some of the newer ones (read Chinese or Indian ones) do. I suspect that it is a function of how the drill is made, rolled or ground flutes. This may also have a effect on how the collect grips the drill and gets worse as the drill gets larger because the grip length inside the collet gets shorter.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    the drills are not always straight and on some the flutes vary from one edge to the other ! .
    I'm glad to hear that BJ because that was my feeling too. And that, along with collet run out is why more stick out can make it worse. I'm thinking of reverting to the v block concept, like Harold's. I'd be interested in his views on this.

    Bill, thanks. I was happy with the index wheel but the hacksaw blade is fugly. It was never intended to be paraded.

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