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  1. #31
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    I went a seminar on 3D printing about 18 months ago. It was run by one of the distributors for commercial grade printers. They now have a materiel that can be printed and used for the cavity for injection moulds. The catch is it is only good for 50-80 shots. Mainly aimed at proving the cavity design before cutting tool steel.

    They have their own print bureau and displayed a few commercial examples of printing they had done for customers:
    Assembly jigs for automotive parts
    Medical teaching aids
    Truck air con ducting (this was to keep production going after a tool failure)
    Patterns for casting
    There was other stuff but i cant remember.

  2. #32
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    Goodness me!

    Printers CAN be paused, so I have no idea where that crap is coming from, indeed you may deliberately want to do so in order to insert a captive nut for example, then keep printing. That way you can have a metal fastener in there instead of relying on tapping plastic. PLA is relatively tolerant of this type of pausing. Other than that I don't know why you'd want to, never mind not buy a printer because it can't be paused? When running massive jobs you may need to change filament and to facilitate that Simplify 3D has a big, wait for it, Pause button on the machine control panel. Marlin (the firmware many of us run, it's open source) also has a pause function built right in to the printer. About the only time I've ever found I would otherwise want to pause a print is when I'm going to be away and don't want to leave one completely unattended in a house. I've heard of failures causing fires, and while no doubt very rare, it could happen.

    As far as going faster, like I said that is a limitation of this type of technology, so there's no point in holding out for it, as it simply isn't going to happen. Some of the printers can get the heads going quite fast, but at the end of the day you still need to accelerate and stop the head and also get around corners, all while pumping out plastic. Wish for the tooth fairy too if you like, neither are going to happen. Most of the time it doesn't make a lot of difference anyway. You hit the start button and go do something else. Come back when it's done. The time will depend on the size of the print and how fast you're game to run it, but a few hours is fairly typical. Very big prints can take over a day if you print slowly, but that's really not all that common.

    These printers can be made as large as you want them, there is essentially no limitation on that. I listen to a 3D podcast and one of the hosts built this machine Meet Gigantor, the printer of unusual size | 3d Printing Today Podcast The Chinese (amongst others) are now printing houses by pumping concrete. Exactly the same technology, just a different media. Indeed E3D (the company who make the BigBox) have a hot end called a Volcano that is designed to pump a lot of plastic fast, just for this type of application. However most printers are in the 200-300 mm range because that will do 99% of the work 99% of the people will want to do. Want to do larger work, fine, buy (or make) a larger printer. Once you've had some exposure to the field they're actually not difficult to make. I rebuilt mine with a lot of new components because the original was so crap, but so much was replaced/modified I could have built a brand new one too if I'd wanted to fabricate up the chassis.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Goodness me!

    Printers CAN be paused, so I have no idea where that crap is coming from, indeed you may deliberately want to do so in order to insert a captive nut for example, then keep printing. That way you can have a metal fastener in there instead of relying on tapping plastic.
    Precisely the use I had in mind. Not necessarily a nut but some metal shape into a nest then keep printing to encapsulate it.

    I said I couldn't see any software reason it couldn't be done. Yeah the nozzle temp etc (and shrinkage) is an issue but I can't see deposition of hot plastic onto a cooler substrate being much of an issue, looking at variant22's quite massive sized water brake moulding. Plasma cutters etc have distance probes to set the head height so this is also a minor issue if it's important for interrupted deposition.

    I'm in no rush. The current generation of printers is, for my needs, minimal WRT functionality, I know they'll improve further and I don't have anything driving me to pull the trigger.

    I came a lot closer to buying that Haas TL1 lathe on eBay, actually.

    PDW

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    As far as going faster, like I said that is a limitation of this type of technology, so there's no point in holding out for it, as it simply isn't going to happen.
    Pete, where did you read into anything I wrote that I gave a damn about current technology and its limitations? I'm quite happy to accept what you say WRT its speed limits but I don't care, I want what I want. If current tech doesn't do it, I'm quite happy to wait until new tech comes along. If that hasn't happened in another year or 2, fine. I might have to change my mind, or farm jobs out. Whatever.

    PDW

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Pete, where did you read into anything I wrote that I gave a damn about current technology and its limitations?

    PDW
    Right here!

    Not wrong on the slooooooow front. Printing the patterns took ages, I was told.

    I expect I'll buy one about another 2 generations of improvement down the track. IOW, probably sometime in 2018.
    I can assure you that next year won't be another 2 generations, nor will you see the massive speed increase you commented on. That speed potential already exists, and can be bought right now relatively cheaply, but it is in other 3D technology and not the improvement in this technology you are waiting for.

    I have no idea of what you've decided you need in a printer Peter, but if you're not interested in the thread or what it's discussing, that's fine. On the other hand I think a lot of people are interested, and hopefully can get some factual information of how it may or not fit THEIR needs. I'm especially impressed with the OP's results, and I think he should be particularly proud of them. I think it's terrific he's sharing that with us as he's doing some things with patterns I would like to, but just haven't yet had the time to do. I'm confident others here will be equally impressed and would like to hear more about his experiences.

  6. #36
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    About the only time I've ever found I would otherwise want to pause a print is when I'm going to be away and don't want to leave one completely unattended in a house. I've heard of failures causing fires, and while no doubt very rare, it could happen. .
    e.g. Beware your 3D printer (They can cause fires) (Page 1) — Solidoodle Discussion — SoliForum - 3D Printing Community guy lost his whole house.

    I occasionally read a couple 3D printing sites and see that some users who leave their printers unattended hook in a smoke detector to cut power if any smoke is detected.

    There is even a product (smoke signal) trying to raise money on kickstart to develop a gizmo for the less tech savvy user.

    A simple smoke detector is probably a good addition to all of these thermal type printers.

    There are also fire suppression systems available for 3D printers 3DPrintClean - Enclosure Fire Suppression Kit

  7. #37
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    I have just found out why when I was looking at printers the Big box could not be found. The makers no longer have it for sale and will make an announcement sometime this month. Probably about the next version.

    I personally find those Delta arm ones the most fascinating to watch. I had not seen that type of mechanism until yesterday. It was a smart person who worked out the servo movements to move the arm. This is a Delta arm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv5B63HeF1E
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  8. #38
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    I have just found out why when I was looking at printers the Big box could not be found. The makers no longer have it for sale and will make an announcement sometime this month. Probably about the next version.

    I personally find those Delta arm ones the most fascinating to watch. I had not seen that type of mechanism until yesterday. It was a smart person who worked out the servo movements to move the arm. This is a Delta arm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv5B63HeF1E
    That's what my son has. He has almost completely rebuilt his machine, Larger/thicker Al plate with larger pyrex glass working surface. carbon fibre arms with magnetic bearing linkages, extra length tighter tolerance linear bearings, precision acme screws with acme nuts that fall under their own weight in the vertical, higher temp/res print head, automated magnetic sensor position calibration and more. I hate to think what he has spent on it.

  9. #39
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    Don't know if anyone is interested, but I found this on gumtree Ad ID 1134094388
    huge 3d printer, custom machine

    $750.00
    Kryn







    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  10. #40
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    The context for the discussion around pausing could do with some clarification. PDW asked me a while back if I could pause when the filament got low and replace it as I ran out on one of the water brake parts. I pretty much said No. It's not so much that it can't be paused as Pete F mentioned - it's all there in Marlin and presented nicely in OctoPi. Hit pause then...

    The issue is that it usually takes a bit of messing around to get a new spool of filament to feed. I run Titans and E3D v6 hot ends, but it's still a bear to get the filament feeding. Any slight misalignment or bend in the filament and it jams and need retracting and feeding again. This is all whilst holding a spring loaded pressure arm on the printer head, which is part of the carriage.

    If I could get it to feed without moving the carriage - which is a possibility I would need to capture the ooze. As the nozzle needs to be primed otherwise it will start printing and miss a bunch of filament on the current layer.

    Another consideration is what happens after you pause. I for one would get ooze immediately after pausing. Then blobbing when the print restarts. If wanted to pause I would need to do a retraction, probably move the print head away from the print and then mess with it.

    I have read about people replacing filament during a print by pausing and then joining a new spool of filament onto the remaining filament which avoids having to mess around with feeding it directly into the hot end. I'm not sure how they join it. Possibly heat it and plastic weld it. That would be better (assuming it does not jam at the join) than trying to feed filament up through the feeder into the hot-end.

    EDIT: Pete, you got me thinking given you regularly pause prints when you leave the house. Is it possible to issue commands to the printer whilst it's paused? I'm thinking about how I can get the filament feeding and primed after a "live" reload? I have not experimented with this, but it may well be practical if I can issue commands whilst paused to make the print head move away from the print, get the Titan extrude some filament to get it feeding and primed and perform a wipe to get rid of the ooze?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    I have just found out why when I was looking at printers the Big box could not be found. The makers no longer have it for sale and will make an announcement sometime this month. Probably about the next version.
    Agh! I almost feel a bit responsible. I hope it all works out. I have heard good things about the Prusa. IIRC the mk2 is getting good results. Anyway, If anyone can get it working you can!

    It's a strange situation with the BigBox. No one quite knows what's going on. I hope they do have a 2.0 and a kit to upgrade my 1.1. There are a few things that would make using it more enjoyable. Some of the newer printers have much better bed leveling for instance. All automated and no stuffing around setting the nozzle offset over a mesh (9 points) with paper.

    Another thing that I find a bit hard to swallow is how the glass bed is mounted. It's up on 4 tiny hex stand-offs. They have a threaded bore to hold the bed. The idea is to turn the hex stand off to get a good level and tighten the screws. In reality they are hard to reach and I can never get close to a good level. The auto-bed leveling uses IR on glass which sometimes gets an OK level, but is unreliable and only takes one point of measurement.

    The dual independent heads will also be an improvement for what I'm doing. Having 2 head on a single carriage means that aligning and setting the Z must be perfect to get good results. If the Z is not exactly the same as the other head it will drag all over the print leaving horrible serrations. Then if you have any small amount of blobbing then the second head will no doubt find it. Then there is the ooze control from the nozzle that's not in use. Even after a wipe one can still get a small amount of ooze.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by variant22 View Post
    Agh! I almost feel a bit responsible. I hope it all works out. I have heard good things about the Prusa. IIRC the mk2 is getting good results. Anyway, If anyone can get it working you can!
    You can blame Pete if you want. I was going to get one last year. I am already making a list of things to make. Some prototype Kingway vial holders and rod clamps. A guard for the open bevel gears on that rotary electromagnetic chuck I have. A holder for the fan I have to cool the electric motor on the same chuck. Although first will no doubt be at Pete says, making 10mm cubes.



    It's a strange situation with the BigBox. No one quite knows what's going on. I hope they do have a 2.0 and a kit to upgrade my 1.1. There are a few things that would make using it more enjoyable. Some of the newer printers have much better bed leveling for instance. All automated and no stuffing around setting the nozzle offset over a mesh (6 points) with paper.

    Another thing that I find a bit hard to swallow is how the glass bed is mounted. It's up on 4 tiny hex stand-offs. They have a threaded bore to hold the bed. The idea is to turn the hex stand off to get a good level and tighten the screws. In reality they are hard to reach and I can never get close to a good level. The auto-bed leveling uses IR on glass which sometimes gets an OK level, but is unreliable and only takes one point of measurement.
    Can you level it with a dial indicator running it across the table? I was thinking when I build the Prusa, I will try to get it as square as I can as I go. Reading a bit, some problems seem to stem from the building. I will just have to wait and see how it goes. I have plenty of time to research. I still have little idea what plastic is for what or how to use it.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    You can blame Pete if you want. I was going to get one last year. I am already making a list of things to make. Some prototype Kingway vial holders and rod clamps. A guard for the open bevel gears on that rotary electromagnetic chuck I have. A holder for the fan I have to cool the electric motor on the same chuck. Although first will no doubt be at Pete says, making 10mm cubes.
    Happy for Pete to be responsible. I'm sure he offers a money back guarantee

    Your list of parts sounds good. These things are so handy. Really good fun once you get into it. It's as Pete said earlier, only really limited by your imagination. If you can draw it, you can likely print it.

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Can you level it with a dial indicator running it across the table? I was thinking when I build the Prusa, I will try to get it as square as I can as I go. Reading a bit, some problems seem to stem from the building. I will just have to wait and see how it goes. I have plenty of time to research. I still have little idea what plastic is for what or how to use it.
    Yes, you can use an indicator and some BigBox owners have done that. I though about it a while ago. I would have had to draw up a mount to connect it to the carriage. The rods on my carriage are only 8mm, so there is already quite a bit of sag from the weight of the Titan motor and hot end.

    At the end of the day, it was quicker for me to move the carriage by hand and use the old piece of paper under the nozzle and try to level it like that. I got it to a reasonable point but the thing is that as you rip the glass off the bed to release prints (with a substantial glass contact area), you inadvertently push and pull. What happens is that you end up having the bed flex, the screws move a little bit and at times the leadscrew(or s) turn. Now your bed is out of level. I figure its best to do the mesh leveling and be done with it for the next print.

    I now always run mesh leveling after the machine has been turned off. It's easier for me to spend 10 minutes leveling and making sure everything is good, verse having to pull a failed print off the bed and start all over again. Here's hoping E3D release a fully automated leveling system as that would be pure joy!

  14. #44
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Can you level it with a dial indicator running it across the table? I was thinking when I build the Prusa, I will try to get it as square as I can as I go. Reading a bit, some problems seem to stem from the building. I will just have to wait and see how it goes. I have plenty of time to research. I still have little idea what plastic is for what or how to use it.
    On the printers I have seen the bed can be measured and set super precisely manually during the initial build but the heating/cooling of the base means it moves significantly during the warming and cooling so it has to be checked ideally between every print - you don't want to be getting out dial indicators every time which is why they are designed to self calibrate.
    The delta printer my son has uses a 4 point self calibration check, centre and the outer edges of the base at the 3 apex points of the delta.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by variant22 View Post
    It's a strange situation with the BigBox. No one quite knows what's going on. I hope they do have a 2.0 and a kit to upgrade my 1.1. There are a few things that would make using it more enjoyable. Some of the newer printers have much better bed leveling for instance. All automated and no stuffing around setting the nozzle offset over a mesh (9 points) with paper.
    I had a look at the E3D forum as well as some Big Box videos/ pictures. It all seems a bit confused at the moment with an announcement pending on their future. I think they have been caught out with the popularity of their product, although reading some of their forum entries it sounds like there are users there that have them for serious printing and then there are others who treat them as the computer version of a hot rod and seem to be forever tweaking and modifying... (Bit like Bob's son and the machine Kryn pointed to)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    That's what my son has. He has almost completely rebuilt his machine, Larger/thicker Al plate with larger pyrex glass working surface. carbon fibre arms with magnetic bearing linkages, extra length tighter tolerance linear bearings, precision acme screws with acme nuts that fall under their own weight in the vertical, higher temp/res print head, automated magnetic sensor position calibration and more.
    Some of the mods that people are talking about have me intrigued though - I remember when I first bought a CD player being given a thick green texta to line the edges of the disc because it would sound better. Doing the maths later I think any interference eliminated would have been in the Gigahertz range. Some of these look like they fall into the 'hopeful' category of performance improvements. I'd love to see some comparative figures showing how the changes affect things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    I can assure you that next year won't be another 2 generations, nor will you see the massive speed increase you commented on. That speed potential already exists, and can be bought right now relatively cheaply, but it is in other 3D technology and not the improvement in this technology you are waiting for
    Mind you, looking at the design and the way parts have been made I do wonder whether they have had a serious look at the mechanical side of the design.
    I agree with Pete that there is probably not a speed breakthrough in the pipeline but at the same time there looks to be plenty of potential for improving the dimensional stability and robustness of the basic structure of these machines. I also wonder about when diminishing returns kick in - after all at the end of the day you are placing a blob of plastic. Do you need precision to the nearest micron or in reality is 10 micron good enough due to uncertainties in position given thermal effects, extruder variation, leadcrew / encoder error and so on...

    Michael
    (Except for my lack of income, I'm almost tempted to get one just to show how much they can be improved )

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