Thread: Horizontal bandsaw questions

G'day all, I hope you had a relaxing and enjoyable Christmas.

I'm looking to buy a bandsaw for the shed and I have to ask a silly question in relation to their operation. In my searching I've come across ones that have a hydraulic lowering system and ones that don't. With the ones that don't, do you have to manually lower the saw and hold it, like a chop saw or does the weight of the arm have sufficient downward pressure to make the cut?

I apologise if that sounds silly, but in all my searching, I couldn't find a definitive answer. On one site I found the brand advertising as having an 'automatic down system' and in the video it shows that particular model cutting all by itself whereas the other saw was being manually operated, hence my confusion.

I'm also seeking some recommendations in relation to brands as well please?
I'd like the saw to have a swivel head and I've seen the Hafco BS-5S, which looks to have good cutting capacity. There are a heap of reviews on them and they seem like a decent machine.
I also came across the Trademaster 5" RF128HDR which looks to be a decent machine, although it has a smaller motor and slightly smaller cutting capacity than the BS-5S. I can't find any reviews of them, does anyone have any feedback on them? Would this machine be worth the extra price over the BS-5S, as I'm happy to pay more for a better quality machine?

Thanks for looking,
Steve

Originally Posted by Lovey71

G'day all, I hope you had a relaxing and enjoyable Christmas.

I'm looking to buy a bandsaw for the shed and I have to ask a silly question in relation to their operation. In my searching I've come across ones that have a hydraulic lowering system and ones that don't. With the ones that don't, do you have to manually lower the saw and hold it, like a chop saw or does the weight of the arm have sufficient downward pressure to make the cut?

The weight of the arm has too much weight for most cutting situations so cheaper saws usually have a large spring that counter balances the weight of the arm. By adjusting the tension on this spring the weight can be set to cut thinner/thicker stock so that the blade does not bog down.

The smaller saws can usually cut stock so thick that even when the full weight of the arm is applied it still cuts quite slowly. To get around this you will sometimes see extra weight loaded up onto the arm. I have a series of lead weights that I hang off the arm for this purpose.

I have a bandsaw very similar to this one (mine is the Rong Fu version)
B006 | BS-7L Metal Cutting Band Saw | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au

The hydraulic is to control the down feed rate by slowing it down only, it can't speed it up or add extra pressure. The smaller Hafco one you were looking at
B003 | BS-5S Swivel Head Metal Cutting Band Saw | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au
Appears to have a small spring in the pivot to attempt to provide some form of resistance.
The benefit of the hydraulic is that it's adjustable, so you want different down pressure to cut 40mm RHS with a 1.6 side wall then you would cutting 40mm solid square bar. With hydraulic you turn the knob to adjust it, with something like the BS-5S you may need to slow down the rate yourself or add weights like BobL Mentioned.

Going to point out here as it's not something I really worried about when buying mine but would be stuffed without it, coolant systems can be vital if you intend to cut thick stock. I regularly cut quite thick stock (40mm+) and by running the saw slow and with coolant everything stays cool.

I have the BS-5S and have been using it for a couple of years without any problems. The weight of the arm seems to provide just the right amount of downward force to cut everything I have used it for. It's not adjustable but you could add some weight if you wanted I suppose, I've never needed to it works fine as is. A coolant system is a must in my books, I made my own using a cheap gear pump of ebay, a few rare earth magnets and a few retic fittings from Bunnings. Don't know about the other one.

I have my 6 x 4 saw set with maximum support from the spring and add a bit of weight as required. With thin stock I often hold the saw with my hand to slow the cutting rate. Adjusting the spring takes too long.

I would like to make a hydraulic lowering system sometime and I recommend getting a saw with this fitted. Hydraulic is far better than springs or weight to regulate the cut. I agree with MasterSpoon regarding coolant. I have added a higher, heavier stand and fitted a coolant tray and coolant system among a number of other improvements.

In answer to your question, although it has been hinted at, all horizontal saws can operate on their own. You do not have to manually operate it yourself. The advertising/video did its job obviously. If you cut thin stock it is possible teeth will get broken without extra control tho.

Of the ones mentioned I would opt for the BS-7L like MasterSpoon has as it has both coolant and hydraulic control and a bigger cutting capacity.

Dean

Thanks for your replies, they're very appreciated.
MasterSpoon, the Trademaster model that I was looking at is a Rong Fu that has been re-badged. Are they a good quality unit? They appear to be very similar to the bigger HAFCO ones, like the BS 7 and up.
Thanks Sacc51, do you have any pics of your DIY coolant system available or elsewhere on the forum? If so, I'll have a dig around.
Thanks Dean, as much as I'd like a bigger unit, I don't think I'd use it to it's potential, plus I'm going to have somewhat limited shed space unfortunately.

I should have added that my budget would be preferably under $1000, so the HAFCO unit with a home made coolant system and some spare blades would fit the budget. If the Trademaster/Rong Fu ones are better quality, I could stretch the budget.
Thanks again all.

My saw is a Rong Fu and made in Taiwan. Generally considered better than Chinese.

The Trademaster would be the next option.

My coolant system is cheap and simple. A white plastic bucket with lid, a cheap pond pump, some pvc hose (13mm), some poly pipe (3mm) for nozzles and I added a non return valve. A pvc drain pipe from the tray runs into the bucket via a pvc storm water mesh fitting which sits in a hole in the lid. I also have speaker magnets stuck under the tray, near the drain to catch swarf and a bit of stainless mesh under the cutting area which catches most of the swarf. I just pick it up and tip into the bin. Others have had issues with blockages using a pond pump, but I have been using this for years without problems. The tray has only a small amount of fall and virtually none of the swarf makes it into the mesh fitting. I have a magnet in the bucket, but it does not get anything on it.

Dean

Hi Steve, one of the things members here hadn't mentioned, was to get Bi Metal blades, don't bother with the supplied blade as they are a carbon blade and don't last long. When looking for blades, I work on 3 teeth as a minimum in the material to be cut. If it's any finer, it seems to take forever to do the cut, by the same token too coarse a blade and you risk breaking off teeth. Blades are sold in the length by TPI Teeth Per Inch, I use 32 tpi for cutting 1.6 thick walled RHS and 24 tpi for practically everything else.
Hope this helps.
Kryn

Originally Posted by Lovey71

MasterSpoon, the Trademaster model that I was looking at is a Rong Fu that has been re-badged. Are they a good quality unit? They appear to be very similar to the bigger HAFCO ones, like the BS 7 and up.

As mentioned Rong Fu are made in Taiwan as far as I am aware and are generally considered better quality then the copies out of China. I bought mine years ago from Titan Machinery and it has served me well.

I believe mine is about 4 years old, I burnt up the original carbon blade that came with it, was running it too fast and hadn't setup the coolant. Bought a variable tooth bi-metal blade 10-14 TPI and just leave it on there at all times. Had to cut some 60mm x 100mm plate steel the other day, set it up and flicked the go lever and just walked away, the cut took some time and would have been quicker with a courser blade but I was in no rush and it worked.

If shed space is limited maybe look for one that you can move around, eg on wheels. Mine gets put at the end of the main workbench when not in use and just gets pulled out when I need to use it. If you have one you can't move easily it may take up more space in the long run. It's not uncommon for me to have a couple meters of stock hanging out the back of the bandsaw, just something to keep in mind.
I know I'm probably a bit bias but I believe the BS-7L size is the best option. You get wheels, coolant, ect and it's not too pricey. You can buy cheaper yes but factor in the price of a coolant system and wheels if they are not there.

Don't forget to check ebay and gumtree if budget is limited, you may find something worthwhile

Hi Lovey71,
I have a BS5S bandsaw that I have fitted a coolant system to and made up a hydraulic down feed control set up for it. Mine has a choice of three holes that the original downfeed control spring could be fitted in, sounds like sacc51 saw is a bit different. The choice of holes is far to fiddly to use and do not take enough weight of the arm when cutting thin walled tube in my opinion. If you look up the "Your Latest Project" thread at post #934 you can see my saw set up. I think you need at least a coolant system,a down feed control set up and bi metal blades to make these saws preform.Depending on how handy you are you may prefer to buy a saw with them fitted or make them yourself, lots of good ideas and help if needed on this forum.
Bob

Hydraulic lowering and coolant for sure. In my opinion once you have at least these 2 you will be glad you did.

Not having swivel head is about my only regret with our "big" shop BS.

Thanks all for your feedback, it's very appreciated.
After reading the replies, I started checking out the next level up bandsaws (7 x 12" type with coolant system and hydraulic descent control).
If I were to step up to this level, there's no way that I could afford the swivel head, but I think that they all come with a swiveling vice to enable mitre cuts.
Is the swivel head feature really worth it, or can you get by with the swivel vice instead?
Is the swivel head something that could be overlooked to gain a coolant system and hydraulic control?
What would be seen as the 'more valuable' feature, seeing as there has to be some compromise?
Thanks again all,
Steve

Bandsaw coolant system: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1698761733787694/ The coolant system

Having used both, the beauty of the swiveling head is that if you have a rack for the material to be supported while cutting at 90 degrees, and you then want to cut 45 degrees, you don't need an extra for the material if you had the fixed head, taking up a lot less room. If I were to get another saw, that would be the one for me, a lot less messing around with supports.
Kryn

Originally Posted by Lovey71

Is the swivel head feature really worth it, or can you get by with the swivel vice instead?
Is the swivel head something that could be overlooked to gain a coolant system and hydraulic control?
What would be seen as the 'more valuable' feature, seeing as there has to be some compromise?

I have a 4x6 bandsaw with swiveling head but no coolant or hydraulic control (bought from Ozmestore). The really nice thing about the swiveling head is as Kryn says - no mucking around with moving supports for the material, and cutting mitres (and back to square) is easy and with appropriate stops, quite precise. I bought swiveling head because a friend of mine running a small engineering business at the time (who had a swiveling vice saw) recommended swiveling head. Good enough for me.

Numerous members have added coolant to their saws with a small submersible fountain pump and I think one or two have worked out hydraulic feeds to give better control there. No one however has worked out how to convert a swivel vice bandsaw to swivel head that I can recall. If you are on a limited budget I would suggest getting the swiveling head saw and adding coolant and better downfeed control when funds are available. These saws are not useless without those features, so you may wear your blades a little more or need to 'assist' the saw when cutting very thin tubing but you will still have a usable saw.

Michael