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  1. #16
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    Sep 2006
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    Australind , WA
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    I've come in late on this thread...sorry, if I repeat what someone else has said....

    You should have a schematic somewhere?....Inside the control panel cover or in the manual? Grizzley equivalent?....Will help to work out where ALL of the interlocks are on your machine. ( ie E Stop, etc )
    Control voltage is 24 V AC...not DC.

    I've had a control step down transformer fail before. I bought one new one from RS....didn't bother with another chinese unit.



    Hope you get it sorted.

    Steve

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    Never too late mate - problem is still ripe and unresolved!

    I'm looking up a schematic, have been scouring the net for one. I know that this mill is re-branded all over the world, so I'm just trying to work it out. I had a manual a few years back when I bought it but I can't find it. So i'll keep digging. Then I can post it up for some more suggestions once I exhaust all avenues.

    I'll def be replacing whatever is broke with a quality part.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Just check for volts across the contactor coil, if you have volts but the contactor doesn't pull in, then it's most likely a faulty coil, Isolate the power, disconnect the coil and measure for continuity across the coil, my first guess would be it's failed open cct.

    If you don't have volts across the coil, then trace the control voltage circuit, check first for any interlocks, like e-stops and travel limits. If still no volts, then buzz the control transformer.

    Ray

    Edit, I see I cross posted with Eskimo. I hesitate to suggest it, but, second thoughts, did you accidentally bump the e-stop? Don't laugh, I've seen it happen.

    Hahaha, yes, e-stop was my first test. i thought maybe it shorted, so I tested that and its working as expected.
    also made sure its in the right position

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    39
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    There are two sets of control cables exiting through glands and disappearing into the head of the machine on the right hand side of your first picture. One (at the rear) has 4 wires, but I'm unsure at this stage what they might go to. The front one however, appears to be thinner, and I notice on Paramount Browns website that the MMD 46 shows a swing away chuck guard mounted in the bracket visible at the right of your 3rd picture. Given its removed from your machine, my thought is that the sleeve inside that bracket which actuates the interlock microswitch for said guard has vibrated around during the cut, thus causing it to cut out....

    mmd46.jpg

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    There are two sets of control cables exiting through glands and disappearing into the head of the machine on the right hand side of your first picture. One (at the rear) has 4 wires, but I'm unsure at this stage what they might go to. The front one however, appears to be thinner, and I notice on Paramount Browns website that the MMD 46 shows a swing away chuck guard mounted in the bracket visible at the right of your 3rd picture. Given its removed from your machine, my thought is that the sleeve inside that bracket which actuates the interlock microswitch for said guard has vibrated around during the cut, thus causing it to cut out....

    mmd46.jpg
    Oh Dear god no -

    Ok I remember when I was putting this together i thought "i don't need this guard thingy, its for amateurs".
    I also remember having to have the guard switch facing forward to use the machine......
    reading your post gave me that flushing feeling, of being caught red handed doing something silly - Could this be the reason?

    As soon as I get home I will check.....Half of me hopes it is, the other half is fearful (ego, credibility etc etc etc!)

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    5,942

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    Hope the problem was the screen switch, I know it's embarrassing, but we've all been there. How do you find the 45, besides going into the shed and it's there? Interested, as I'm thinking of getting the next one up from it.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    It is with great embarrassment, and humbleness that I appear before you to admit that the issue, was, in fact, as pointed out by Jekyllandhyde, the safety screen switch.

    In all the years, it has never ever happened to me! I never installed the safety screen as it deemed a hinderance, and I can only think that it vibrated its way closed or i bumped it somehow.

    I would like to thank you all for helping me with my electrical woes.

    and I humbly apologise! but am also very thankful.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    Oh One last thing. Only fwd on thr panel works. The reverse button doesn't work but u should be able to isolate that.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    59
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    6,541

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    Quote Originally Posted by oohsam View Post
    ...and I humbly apologise!...
    What for? At least you have a working mill and now know it's electrics a bit better. As long as you have learned something it's all good.

    Meanwhile, on your reverse, there may be some electronic lock out so that you can't go from one to another accidentally. We had lathes at a previous employer fitted with safety guards that required a reset button combination if the guards were disturbed. Perhaps look in your manual and see whether there is something like that involved.

    Michael

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    341

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    Yeah, I reckon this is a forum where grumpy old gits come to show they still know useful stuff really, and they aren't actually obsolete No-one would pick people up for forgetting something, cos there but the grace of god....

    Actually, you are too honest. I think most would just say they found a broken wire and admit nothing!

    My first job was with the bbc as an engineer. its hard to believe now, but they used to train people for 18 weeks if you were out of uni, or 18 months if you were out of school. They had a big training centre like a college, with hundreds of people being trained on stuff, all residential and all costs paid. Think what that must have cost to train people back then. Loads of expensive state of the art gear. One of the things was to align a studer a80 1/4" reel to reel which was the ubiquitous studio recorder of the day. They used precision alignment tapes which cost a mint, recorded with exactly 1kHz with no defects. Of course I managed to erase a bit of the precision tape. I was young and going to own up but my lab partner told me not to be daft, just record some tone over that section. Afterwards you could see quite clearly that I had done that because there was a change in phase at the beginning and end, and of course it wouldn't be exactly 1K but close enough. later on I noticed other sections where I could see the same change in phase. Turned out they only ever gave students old knackered alignment tapes cos they do it all the time but I found that out weeks later.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
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    Isnt that great... WE got you up and running again

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
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    63
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    4,049

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    Quote Originally Posted by oohsam View Post
    Oh One last thing. Only fwd on thr panel works. The reverse button doesn't work but u should be able to isolate that.
    Reverse only works when the top switch is set to "Tapping". There is a micro switch at the bottom of the depth stop to switch from reverse to forward and back out the tap. There is another one at the top which switches the motor off when the quill is returned to the rest position. These only operate in tapping mode. The wires for these and the guard switch are the ones mentioned by Jekyll and Hyde. I removed the guard from my machine and also found that the switch occasionally turned off. The first time it took a while to find it. I have since removed the whole shebang and joined the 2 wires together.

    I have my manual here and it has a circuit diagram. I can copy it if you want, but it is not a great copy already.

    I also have a PDF copy of the manual for the Grizzly 0775 mill which seems to be almost identical. It is 3ph and has power feed so it won't help with the electrics. Mechanically the drawings are better and the manual is much more detailed.

    I think the Paramont Browns MMD45 is the best unit as it has a more powerful motor than most, has table rotation and the largest (MT4) spindle taper. The taper matches my lathe tailstock which is handy.

    Dean

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    Quote Originally Posted by oohsam View Post
    It is with great embarrassment, and humbleness that I appear before you to admit that the issue, was, in fact, as pointed out by Jekyllandhyde, the safety screen switch.

    In all the years, it has never ever happened to me! I never installed the safety screen as it deemed a hinderance, and I can only think that it vibrated its way closed or i bumped it somehow.

    I would like to thank you all for helping me with my electrical woes.

    and I humbly apologise! but am also very thankful.
    You won't be the first, nor the last! At least it was easy.

    We all forget the obvious at times, I recently bought a secondhand dirt bike (running fine, first in 15 years), and proceeded to rejet the carby. It took me a week of screwing around removing the fuel tank and cleaning the carby over and over after that, before I realised that although the clear fuel tank appeared to be close to half full, its uneven shape meant that it was actually down to the 'reserve' capacity, and the fuel that was getting to the carb was only the amount that had sloshed across when i removed it everytime to 'clean' the carby. Flicked the fuel tap to 'reserve' instead of 'on', fired up perfectly. I knew that carby bikes had a two position fuel tap - had just completely forgotten about it.

    Plus side, I now know where the bike hits reserve and the carby is very clean...


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    Reverse only works when the top switch is set to "Tapping". There is a micro switch at the bottom of the depth stop to switch from reverse to forward and back out the tap. There is another one at the top which switches the motor off when the quill is returned to the rest position. These only operate in tapping mode. The wires for these and the guard switch are the ones mentioned by Jekyll and Hyde.
    Dean
    Aha. That would explain why the reverse switch is a double pole. That had me scratching my head for a while, I was wondering if it was something specific like that.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    149

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    You blokes are awesome.
    Thanks for the update oldneweng.

    To be honest I never use it for tapping or reverse, just that I was testing it all out I probably also forgot this detail.
    Geez i should really brush up on the user manual!
    If you could upload it that would be great cause I can't find mine anywhere. Actually I'll see if I can download the grizzly one.

    I love the mmd45. It's a great unit. I wish it had auto feed but I can easily adapt one.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    What is it that they say? OH yes "when all else fails read the instruction manual"
    Glad to see that you got it sorted out.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

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