Results 61 to 75 of 258
-
16th Oct 2016, 05:27 PM #61Golden Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 843
rack pinion shaft
This guy is bent and bowed and everything around it is worn almost to comical levels.
Apart from the spindle (which you'll hear me say a lot) this area is in the poorest mechanical condition of pretty much everything.
IMAG0491.jpgIMAG0488.jpg
I suspect it has been bent for some time and run that way. Must have made an awful vibration or rythmic 'complaining' sound - it doesn't spin very fast I think.
The gear looks pretty sad too. The teeth are thicker at one end. The hole is some random shape, and the brazed-in keys are now about 1/8" whereas the shaft keyway is 3/16".
IMAG0477.jpgIMAG0480.jpgIMAG0483.jpgIMAG0484.jpg
Using the teeth+2 / diameter formula I make it 10DP.
I also suspect that the level of play on gear the that slides along it may have also damaged teeth on the 'intermediate rack gear' (pic from when gear still on carriage).
IMAG0332.jpg
I've not got the 'rack pinion shaft knob' and spring that goes on the end so I've yet not got an idea of why there are two machined flats on the shaft.
IMAG0493.jpg
The bushings will be easy - though I have no idea why they are a different lengths - the both fit into the same width casting. Oddly, the long one extends out the back and does even act as a spacer. Dunno. Also don't know why they'd have keyways on their outsides. They do not key into anything. Might not be original but I've seen no evidence of any other replacement or repaired parts.
IMAG0344.jpgIMAG0495.jpg
I could try to straighten the shaft on the press but that still leaves the wear - it is 0.050" smaller in the middle section. And oval. So if I could straighten it I could turn it down slightly. After all, all the bushings here need replacing so it can be a new diameter but 0.100" off is a fair hit on a shaft that is not that thick anyways (0.700").
So given its all so crap I guess the best thing to do would be to replace it all, even the sliding gear.
I'm not set up for gutting gears, nor for cutting woodruff slots. The boxes of parts had no woodruff keys anywhere so I guess they can be made also.
So, while other things are being done lots of stuff here to get underway then! ... like work up some dividing facility (15 teeth).
Greg.
-
16th Oct 2016, 06:38 PM #62Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Murray Bridge S Aust.
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 5,945
Greg,
MEW(244) has a starting article on making a gear cutting machine, and also a small dividing head. Whether it'll be of use to you I don't know?
Champion used to do a kit of woodruf keys, might be easier to buy them
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
-
16th Oct 2016, 06:58 PM #63Philomath in training
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
- Age
- 59
- Posts
- 6,541
Unless you have a SG in known good condition to check, I'd suggest that perhaps the bushes are different lengths because a replacement bush was bought off the shelf and no one bothered to shorten it.
Michael
-
16th Oct 2016, 09:37 PM #64Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Australia east coast
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 2,713
How would you know - it's a parts kit. The fact that it was disassembled and treated as it was tells me that the previous owner did *something* and it probably wasn't good.
There's no way B&S would have shipped that machine with keyed bushings like that - they're recycled from some other bit of equipment.
All you can do is use your common sense and whatever information you can get off of the net. If it doesn't make sense, you're likely looking at someone else's butchery.
I found some interesting 'features' when I went through this exercise with a small cylindrical grinder - ended up making a bunch of parts, some of which I 'designed' to fit other, existing parts that I knew were correct.
Keep in mind that you're not restoring a museum quality work of industrial art, you're trying to get a machine functional to whatever level of usability & accuracy you personally require.
PDW
-
16th Oct 2016, 10:29 PM #65Golden Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 843
Kryn, thanks. My first effort at dividing my be rather crude, but I'd love to build a dividing head. I reckon this one is cool: A Dividing Head Anyone Can Build | The Hobby-Machinist - The FRIENDLY Machinist Forum
The champion woodruff key set is like $170 or something last time I sniffed about. Pretty tall!
Michael/PDW - yep. I reckon those are just likely stuffed in there from off the shelf or something. And PDW, thanks, yes. It ain't a museum piece - I'll be happy if the darn thing works! ) If I were to bet money as to why it was disassembled I would say the owner decided to have a look at what was making all the crap noises due to bent shafts etc, got it apart - saw it was *really* crap, had troubles with a bunch of taper pins and parked in well in the 'too hard' basket.
I'll go with the "if it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't original" thing. That *does* make sense. )
Speaking of museums etc. As a side note I was browsing a book at the MSMEE exhibition this weekend about American machine history. It said B&S released their first grinder in 1883 and the No 2 was released in 1900. It had a pic of the 1900 version and looked pretty similar to this old lady. Same fundamental dimensions as well.
Greg.
-
17th Oct 2016, 06:54 AM #66Philomath in training
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
- Age
- 59
- Posts
- 6,541
I would have thought most industrial fastener places could get woodruff keys for you and I think I even got one from a mower shop once.
The dividing head that you have linked to is interesting but I'm in agreement with a lot of the posters there, I think the maker makes it look easy. I've also noticed in the US that they tend to have lots of useful stuff just sitting around. Some of those bits of material (if you could find them) would be costly, even second hand - our junk yards here in Oz don't seem to have the offcuts that we are told can be found in the US.
Michael
-
17th Oct 2016, 07:20 AM #67Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Vermont 3133 Victoria
- Posts
- 248
Hi Greg,
I have some imperial woodruff keys, more than I will ever use, depending on sizes I may be able to help you out.
Regards
Bruce
-
17th Oct 2016, 08:54 AM #68Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Australia east coast
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 2,713
I've got a whole kit of them I inherited from a friend. I never use them, happy to part with a couple. Assuming I can find where I put them that is.....
Having said that given a choice I use a straight key if possible and to hell with what the original manufacturer did. Woodruff keys are far more of a PITA in my experience.
WRT the dividing head sooner or later you'll need a decent one. Buy a BS-0 size & type, pay the money and move on with life. I've had mine for over 30 years, it's had a lot of use and still in perfect working order. Taiwanese manufacture. H&F sells one.
The big expense is in just how many sets of involute cutters you end up with, but you only need to buy the sizes the job requires.
PDW
-
17th Oct 2016, 08:59 AM #69Golden Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 843
Bruce. Thanks. )
I am feeling a bit like the 'scrounger' you see in old war films. ;-)
Good tip re fastener suppliers though Michael. Thanks.
Re stuff in the US. For sure - they have much more lying about it seems. Even what they say they get at their local 'hardware' store seems like it would come from a specialty provider here.
On the dividing head. I'll not be having a go at that just now. Though I do have all the raw materials for it except worm and wheel - i even have two large bits of 1" angle plate that would do. A bit ambitious for me at this moment.
But .. for interest sake, here is someone giving that design a go with their own due-to-materials-and-circumstance mods:
A Dividing Head By Wayne | The Hobby-Machinist - The FRIENDLY Machinist Forum
-
17th Oct 2016, 05:44 PM #70
For the 10DP gears, do check just in case Boston Gear happen to have what you need in their range. See their PDF catalogue at http://www.altraliterature.com//-/me...p-1930-bg.ashx, and their website Bostongear.com your source for speed reducers, gears and power transmission components for industrial applications. You'd be surprised just how many variants they have - many hundreds. You can buy a lot of their range on Amazon, and they are relatively cheap.
-
17th Oct 2016, 06:23 PM #71Golden Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 843
Thanks Gunna. I forgot about those guys. I'll have a sniff. One of the bevel gears in the clutch is pretty rust-eaten so I'll have a scan for that too. Mind, I went there looking for a 127 gear for the SB lathe and they didn't have one but that might be a bit fringe-y.
-
17th Oct 2016, 06:35 PM #72Philomath in training
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
- Age
- 59
- Posts
- 6,541
Some time ago a 127 hole plate was made up so that members could make a 127t gear if they wished without having a universal dividing head. I think it is with Ewan (Ueee) at the moment.
However, for smaller one off gears it is usually cheaper still to ask as several members cut gears. Normally the main cost is returning the favour to someone in the future ...
Michael
-
18th Oct 2016, 09:46 AM #73Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Australia east coast
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 2,713
-
18th Oct 2016, 09:52 AM #74
-
19th Oct 2016, 07:10 PM #75Golden Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 843
Bronze - over the counter rape ...
Michael, that *is* good to know. I had been looking at my options for making a 127 and it was either make a plate .. somehow, or buy/borrow/steal/make/blackmail-for a universal head.
Dean, that made me laugh out loud! ) Too true. As is happens I scanned the Boston catalogue and nothing off the shelf there for the selection of gears I checked out. Besides, I am keen on giving it a go myself.
PDW, legend. Thanks. I'll see how I go. As a note ... better to be busy than not busy mate ....
Today's ! moment came when I went to a well known Melbourne non-ferrous metals supplier to get some garden-variety gun metal bronze for bushing replacements. After a 25 minute episode where the bloke looks up things in folders and then writes stuff down on a pen and paper carbon copy invoice sheet and then blah de blah. The grand total for a few bits of bronze:
$117!!! Holy snappin' assh*les batman!!
After the 25 minute ordeal I figured I couldn't just cancel so I lobbed out one piece, put on my best 'poor' look and got away for $75. But still. geeeez!
I think I'll keep this stuff to give to my grandchildren. So, here is the question. Does this old girl really *need* bronze bushings? I can see one original bushing in there that is steel (too much care making it to be a previous fix I think, its got a locating pin and the oil hole is the same bevel shape as the others in the castings).
Apart from the shafts around the clutch not too much else runs at speed. I suspect the driven shaft into the clutch would go at a few hundred rpm - it is quite a reduced ratio from the motor. The belt pulleys run on balls bearings.
Brass was about the same price actually.
Could the bushings be CI or (mild) steel? Can I save the bronze for where it is *really* needed? This old girl ain't going back into industrial hard labour anymore.
All advice appreciated.
Greg.
Similar Threads
-
Brown & Sharpe #2 grinder restoration
By Greg Q in forum METALWORK GENERALReplies: 102Last Post: 16th Dec 2020, 11:37 AM -
Brown and Sharpe No 2 surface grinder manual
By StrayAlien in forum METALWORK GENERALReplies: 28Last Post: 1st Oct 2016, 11:25 PM -
Brown and Sharpe Grinder Manual sought
By Greg Q in forum METALWORK GENERALReplies: 5Last Post: 1st Aug 2012, 12:56 AM -
Brown and Sharpe Taper tooling for mill
By woodfast in forum METALWORK GENERALReplies: 13Last Post: 19th Apr 2012, 04:36 PM -
Brown and Sharpe Turret Lathe 1865
By Anorak Bob in forum METALWORK GENERALReplies: 7Last Post: 6th Nov 2011, 09:03 PM