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2nd Oct 2016, 10:32 AM #31Golden Member
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Manual PDFs now online at vintagemachinery.org.
Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
Bob, I think it may be the same as you have.
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2nd Oct 2016, 07:13 PM #32Golden Member
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In the endgame for getting rid of rust and disassembling things. Just the clutch, the vertical leadscrew assembly, and that handwheel shaft (shown in some previous pics) to go now. The drive shaft into the clutch has a lot of play - but it has a bushing so hopefully, replacing that will fix it. The vertical lead screw and hand wheel assembly also has a lot of play - it wobbles all over. It has no bushing so we'll see what we can do when it comes apart.
I have started on disassembling the vertical leadscrew but I think I may have begun in the wrong place. Kind of stuck there so I'll let it rest!
Some more sad parts:
IMAG0352.jpgIMAG0353.jpgIMAG0354.jpgIMAG0355.jpgIMAG0358.jpg
A few hours with a new wire cup wheel on the angle grinder saw the remainder of the rust removed off the carriage ways. The first image is another view of that rust 'layer':
IMAG0359.jpgIMAG0361.jpgIMAG0362.jpgIMAG0363.jpg
Note the wear on the ways. There is a fair bit of that, it may or may not be an issue - but likely may. )
And I got the cup wheel onto some other large stuff:
IMAG0367.jpg
My back needs a rest after these few days!
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2nd Oct 2016, 08:29 PM #33
You are making great progress! Well done.
Perhaps a good starting point might now be to prime the larger parts (base & column, doors, top section, etc) and start assembling the bits that don't interfere with later rework. That will give you the motivation to keep at it.
It all looks pretty good to me.
The sheetmetal covers once derusted will at the very least make great templates for replicas. I picked up the right sheetmetal for you today - several back panels of grey Brownbuilt steel shleve sets (at least the colour and 'Brown' part of the name will be right), if you need them.Cheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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2nd Oct 2016, 09:06 PM #34Golden Member
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Thanks Joe, )
Agree re old panels being templates. I'll get the rust off and see if they are usable. I am crap at sheet metalworking having made a few (erm) badly made items, but, might be time to get better.
Despite the dire and tired state of this old girl and not having a spindle as yet and half a dozen other things I have decided to give a resto a go. It'll take a long time at my skill level, but the worst thing that can happen is I'll learn some things and meet some friendly souls. So, pretty darn good really. I'll aim to get a functioning grinder at the end of it and if that happens it'll be a bonus. If I get a *well* functioning grinder at the end of it then even better. )
You know, it may seem silly to say, but when I looked at this 650kg pile of crap in my garage I thought the 'universe' will help me decide whether to give it a go. If it is all seized rock-solid, if things break, if the ways are just totally beyond consideration, if I found no assistance, if a bunch of crucial parts were missing. All that. Sometimes you get told you're doing the wrong thing. But, so far it has been the opposite in all aspects. So, give it a go I will - dammit, the old lady wants to live on for another 90 years. I am especially glad for the assistance that you and Bob and all the crew of metalwoking misfits here offer.
<fingersnap> now, enough of that 'universe' drivel. back to reality.
Actually, after finishing up with the disassembly, I reckon the next thing for me it to actually attempt a mock re-assembly. I *think* I have accounted for all but a few parts but I'd really like to see how it all goes together so I can understand it all and make sure I have what I think I have. This came to me as boxes of bits and despite studying the manual, I reckon seeing how it all fits will help immensely. Also to check to make sure there are no more disasters!
.. and I hate painting .... )
Greg.
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2nd Oct 2016, 10:20 PM #35Most Valued Member
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3rd Oct 2016, 12:30 AM #36Novice
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Good idea on a trial assembly. The sheet metal panels are only to keep the grit out of where the gears and shafts are. If there are no holes in them and they are not falling apart they are fine. De-rust, filler putty, and paint, and they will be fine.
-Bob Korves
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3rd Oct 2016, 10:15 PM #37Golden Member
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That means you too mate. Ages ago you inspired me to do way more with the little 6x4 bandsaw than I thought even possible. Every time I fire it up with the 4 teeth per inch bi-metal blade and watch it eat through stuff I think of you. ) (the blade was your recommendation)
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4th Oct 2016, 01:39 PM #38Golden Member
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At the risk of suffering the wrath of the cross-posting gods, I opened a thread over on Practical Machinist to see if anybody might have a spindle or any thoughts on repair.
1928 Brown and Sharpe No2 Grinder- early spindle advice / dimensions
Greg.
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4th Oct 2016, 03:35 PM #39Novice
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Interesting thread going on over at PM... Thanks for the link!
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6th Oct 2016, 11:24 PM #40Golden Member
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Yes, some interesting ideas about how to save, or make a new spindle. I am always happy for the advice of those more experienced than I am. )
Some more pics, I am getting there. The clutch assembly has started to come apart but two taper pins are in there like demons. I have spend two evenings trying to get them out and I think they may have to be drilled - with an awkward shape it is difficult to get proper support under the casting when thumping. And after a while you think you've really thumped enough. Even with some attempts at heating like blazes.
Getting there:
IMAG0403.jpg
The clutch drive shaft bushing is incredibly worn. It wobbles around like a wobbly thing. Tipping it one way:
IMAG0407.jpg
Some stuff even came apart that I never thought would *ever* relent:
IMAG0410.jpg
The spring screws came out, but the spring broke. Easy to replace I think.
The 'stuck shaft' was only stuck due to wear lips. I figure it would be the case so I got it on the press:
IMAG0414.jpgIMAG0415.jpg
I couldn't resist and after a good clean and oiling put the carriage and table on. Expecting the worst I figured the carriage would rock unevenly but it was very stable. Same for table.
IMAG0428.jpgIMAG0429.jpg
Funny that the original paint colour and scheme is almost an exact match with the Alba 1A 10" shaper it sits next to:
IMAG0431.jpg
Really - almost exactly the same. Oh, and the Alba is not *quite* done yet - the SG was to help get that back in order ...
I'll close off with a question. How do I get the head back plate off? I have removed the six screws (though the photo below shows them in) and tapped it from the front and I do get *some* movement but it seems stuck-ish pretty fast. I don't see anything else holding it on:
IMAG0421.jpg
So, disassembly list is down to two stuck taper pins on clutch, all the pulleys, and a pulley bracket that well stuck on. Plus the above plate and associated leadscrew. I got the top wheel and gear assembly off without too much fuss.
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6th Oct 2016, 11:49 PM #41Most Valued Member
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7th Oct 2016, 01:48 AM #42
The back plate is not heald on by anything more that the 6 screws and a tight fit on the spindle box spigot. The spindle box comes out the front. So you could wallop the rear spindle bearing spigot (with a suitable copper, aluminium or hardwood interface forward a little to get the back plate loose, then tap the back plate from the front toward the back with a long drift. I think you can reach the very bottom and very top once you have it slightly loose on the spigot. Don't drop either the plate or the spindle box. Not much is holding them any more. Safety wires or an extra pair of hands to stop both of them falling are a good idea.
I'm in Melbourne next week again. Call me if you would like me to visit yet.Cheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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7th Oct 2016, 09:43 PM #43Golden Member
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Apols for the late reply. I had to do things to actually make money to feed myself.
Stustoys (Stu?), you have an eagle eye there. But, it was just some crud resting there. It seems Joe is correct, the back plate *should* just come off. It has some movement and I can open a gap between it and the main head casting but it'll take some more 'encouragement'. I may get to it this weekend.
But before I get anything actually done on the old girl I really must make some backplates made for some new chucks I bought. My 4 jaw is from 1926 I think and is sooo worn it is almost impossible to get anything true plus I have no outside jaws for my 3 jaw so I'm pretty limited in what I can hold. So besides that, this weekend will be cleaning stuff, and lots of solvent and WD40 and steel wool and bits of tired old green scotchbrite on ways and shafts to clean them up. I bought a couple of carbide drill bits to use for drilling the taper pins if I can't get them out after "one more attempt".
Joe, if you are in town in my area (Elwood) you are most welcome to come by for sure - cold beer provided. If you're not anywhere near then it really is still a pile of old black-oxidy-looking rust-pitted bits and might not yet be worth a trip but you're still welcome! Some advice on the ways and alignment would be well received.
Greg.
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7th Oct 2016, 09:58 PM #44Golden Member
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Oh, and I thought just for some Friday evening entertainment I'd show this. On the basis of "more is always better" then surely 0.004" must be better than 0.00011". This is the spindle to rear box clearance.
IMAG0432[1].jpg
Greg.
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8th Oct 2016, 01:16 AM #45
yes, but that spindle bearing is adjustable! You just push out the strips either end of the lubricating slot and file it down until the spindle has 0.00011" gap when tightenend in the taper housing - simple.
Cheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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