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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    843

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    Hi Phil, Yes to top hat that engages the gib, no to lock nut. Besides, on this old girl I think I am at the very end of gib adjustment with what is there. It is already shimmed ... so thicker shim needed! And some scraping ... ) .. so I have just sent you a nag email about a date for the course. )

    Dean .. "7.0mm" .. tut tut .... )

    Greg.

  2. #152
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    Aug 2015
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    Well, not amazingly happy with my first knurling effort so it'll probably get redone at some stage when I get a different (better) knurler than my included-in-the-box phase II jobby. But, at least I have something to lock the auto crossfeed mechanism stop dogs so I can continue with the testing.

    These dogs set the amount of crossfeed travel at each end of table travel. So you can control what happens at the left an right independently. That means, for example, you can feed at both ends, or, only feed at (say) the right end. Quite cool. It'll be great to see it working. The length of the thread is as per the stock ones. Seems a bit long, but we'll keep it at that for now.

    IMAG1355.jpgIMAG1356.jpgIMAG1357.jpgIMAG1359.jpg

    Greg.

    edit: and the original nuts have a hex base on them for tightening which I have not done here ... as it is likely they'll get redone. We'll see.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
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    4,049

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrayAlien View Post

    Dean .. "7.0mm" .. tut tut .... )

    Greg.
    Its been like that from new. The other ways were well adjusted so I did not think of it. Sigh.

    Dean

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
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    4,049

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    I thought that I should add that the head did not move as though it had lots of slack in the ways. I always lock the ways firmly. The head "nod" movement has never been visible. I recently measured it front/back and sideways out of interest. It had enough movement to convince me to adjust it. It was actually Bundy Bear (YouTube) who put the idea in my head. He has a similar sized mill with a power lift on the head. He does not clamp the ways.

    Dean

  5. #155
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    Aug 2015
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    843

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    Milestone! ... after 7 months .. now we're getting serious ....

    I can now manually test the complete front assemblies and find out how that stuff is supposed it work. Meaning: the auto-cross feed. This stuff (less the reversing lever operating - the table needs to be on for that):

    front-controls.JPG

    You know when someone says 'it is actually very interesting' how you feel a little yawn coming on and get that mini anxiety associated with seeming interested when you're not ... well ....

    "it is actually very interesting"

    Very "Wallace and Grommit" actually.

    First of all. It doesn't work. Yet.

    Pics to follow but consider the following facts. Apologies, but this may need reading more than once. During auto cross-feed:

    * the auto cross feed moves the carriage incrementally in one direction only - back-to-front or front-to-back. You choose the direction using a small lever.
    * the auto cross feed is actuated by incrementally rotating the cross feed handle in the direction you have chosen.
    * the table moves in two directions left and right
    * the auto cross feed is driven by a shaft (the 'rack pinion shaft') that rotates in sympathy with the table movement. So as the table is going right, the shaft rotates clockwise and vice versa.
    * when the table changes direction the cross feed handle is rotated but always in the same direction you have selected to move the carriage forwards or backwards regardless of the direction the table is moving.

    So ...

    * the input to this mechanism (the 'rack pinion shaft') is always rotating with the table.
    * only when the table changes direction does the cross feed move, then always in your chosen direction, and nothing to do with the table direction.

    Here is the closest parts diagram I can find:

    fromt-controls-diagram.JPG

    Overall, without the cross feed stop dogs and plate attached it looks like this:

    IMAG1370.jpg

    The left mechanism is the 'friction feed' assembly - that is driven by the pinion shaft. The mechanism to its right is the cross feed ratchet. This ratchets the cross feed handle in your chosen direction and is driven from the friction feed mechanism.

    Here is the new rack pinion shaft fitted with driving gear:

    IMAG1361.jpg

    And out the front is the ratchet wheel from the friction feed assembly:

    IMAG1362.jpg

    Here is a close up of the friction feed and its associated parts. Note the compressed leather 'friction' plates (the small knurled knob on the front is just for mocking up purposes):

    IMAG1371.jpgIMAG1349.jpgIMAG1350.jpg

    The friction feed spins with the rack pinion shaft but can only go as far as the stop dogs (not shown). The rotation actuates an attached cross feed ratchet rack and pinion to cause cross feed movement. Here are some pictures to help:

    IMAG1388.jpgIMAG1390.jpgIMAG1389.jpg

    Notice how the friction feed assembly pushes then pulls the ratchet rack and this has the action of 'winding' it. Here is the pinion in the cross feed ratchet:

    IMAG1366.jpg

    And the cross feed hand-wheel has the gear for the ratchet to act upon .. thus turning the wheel (and the screw):

    IMAG1386.jpgIMAG1384.jpgIMAG1387.jpg

    The cross feed ratchet was as wobbly as hell and did not keep engaged. The hole through the ratchet is quite oval. Components in this area are very hard and there is no way I can ream it or anything and I'm not up to softening then re-hardening as yet, so I first just tried to make a new screw and nut for the ratchet to see if that tightened things up.

    IMAG1380.jpg

    I made it from some very hard scrap I have about so it is not too tidy I am afraid. The thread is not great and I made the top section slightly larger to cater for some bell mouthing in the hole. The bronze spacer is to lift it to get the selection detent higher so as to use an unworn section of the ratchet.

    It seems to have worked and the cross feed ratchet now engages securely and makes happy ratcheting sounds.

    The Alba 1A shaper actually got its first job - slotting the top of the screw:

    IMAG1378.jpg

    Yes, the vice is not a shaper vice and even light cuts challenged it I think - but, it is what I have so it was pressed into action.

    The friction feed assembly is a bit of a mystery. The big W.T.F. is that the operator manual says 'to disengage auto cross feed, *tighten* the friction feed'. What? Tighten to *disengage*!

    My guess is this is to stop the pawl and ratchet on the back of the friction feed from going left/right .... but this will take quite some playing around.

    The parts diagram shows a star-shaped spring washer that lives under the friction feed knurled knob so I figure there is some friction points for engage / disengage that will need to be messed about with.

    Anybody know where I can get some 1" or so wide spring steel of varying thicknesses? I have some old bandsaw blades but they're not very thick or wide. I'll try to make a 'star' from that material though and see how I go ...

    All help and advice appreciated.

    Greg.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    843

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    Update time:

    It has been a while since I posted as, despite a fair amount of activity, I have not actually managed to get much done directly on old Mrs Brown. Most activity has been *towards* getting something done, but sometimes it is "make something to help make something to help make something". You know the feeling.

    I needed to fix some things on the lathe (lots more to go), and get the shaper going, plus mount some chucks, tidy up a rotary table and tailstock for it, sort some way of getting a dead center in the lathe spindle to get the max length I can. Make something to help grind accurate tool angles and so, etc etc. But all to get the grinder done.

    Anyways, along the way (recently) I have actually made some stuff.

    The crossfeed screw was corroded and bent and worn, and the nut thread was beyond saving. Here is its replacement:

    IMAG1578.jpgIMAG1580.jpg

    For now, I am keeping the cross feed nut. With the new screw the play has been greatedly reduced - so it stays.

    I made a mount for an el-cheapo rest for the bench grinder so I can get some more accurate angles.

    IMAG1518.jpgIMAG1520.jpgIMAG1522.jpg

    Darn screw is a double start thread too, and left handed. I mounted a 4 jaw to use to index 180 degrees, but ran out of lathe length, so I mangled a wobbly old 5C drawbar to hold a collet and used a faceplate for indexing (note the opposite slots marked 1 and 2).

    IMAG1549.jpgIMAG1554.jpgIMAG1562.jpgIMAG1563.jpgIMAG1564.jpg

    The cross feed screw needs a quite precise thrust washer. The one it had was weird (on the right). I have thought a lot about it and really could figure no way that fits nicely - it has a key but nothing to key into and the ID is too big. I finally came to the conclusion it was not the original one and just made a new one to fit and lapped it to nice fit.

    IMAG1577.jpg

    The two front handwheels had no handles .. well there was one kind of but it has almost rusted away. So, I made these new ones out of 4140 pre hard. Two different sizes, but they have the same shaft size, so actually not much meat on the 'waist' - hence the smaller has the same waist as the larger.

    IMAG1576.jpgIMAG1574.jpgIMAG1575.jpg

    I kind of carved them and them filed and sanded the rest:

    IMAG1572.jpgIMAG1573.jpg

    .. and just in case any of you ever wondered about the issues that very worn lathe tailstock can cause - this is the sort of difficulty you can encounter:

    IMAG1581.jpg

    (with this, the hole was too narrow and deep and the material too hard to bore). This was as good as I could get it - with two new drills bits - one for a pilot hole and then the real thing. Man, it also sure make it fiddly to try to cut parallel between centers. See what I mean about fixing the lathe!

    I've also re-made all the missing wierdo size cheese-head screws I need. Well most of them anyways. )

    Lots to go over the coming months. I have a final list of stuff to do to get 'everything but the spindle' done.

    Comments welcome.

    Greg.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

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    Hi all,

    Ive been working my way through a hit list of things to do to get the table and movement related stuff on old Mrs Brown functional again.

    A few machining sub-projects to go, but the main main focus lately has been on getting the motor (kindly donated by jhovel - thanks Joe!) sorted. VFD in the post too.

    The motor pulley (also donated by Joe - thanks again mate) ID was far larger than the motor shaft so I needed to sleeve the pulley and cut a keyway in the sleeve and also re-cut a new keyway on the motor shaft.

    IMAG1582.jpgIMAG1583.jpgIMAG1584.jpg

    I've never cut an internal keyway before and this guy is more than 3" long. Nice.

    I thought I'd use the shaper - and make a slotting/keyway attachment for it. I don't have a welder so it had to be fabricated:

    IMAG1617.jpgIMAG1608.jpgIMAG1607.jpgIMAG1606.jpg

    The design is something like Stephen Gotteswinter's but not as nice. Also, I am using 1/4" round HSS tooling.

    The cutter took some fiddling with and the reliefs ended up more than required I think - but I worked hard at getting the width spot on for the keystock I have - which seems to be 0.001" oversize.

    IMAG1621.jpgIMAG1620.jpg

    It took some thinking to get a workholding setup that made sense with my equipment. This was actually very stable:

    IMAG1624.jpgIMAG1625.jpg

    I sprayed in soluble oil to mitigate the tool rubbing on the return stroke. It worked well.

    IMAG1626.jpg

    Overall, I was pretty happy with the result. It took a few weekends of work and setup experimentation to lead up to cutting the darn thing and it was all over in 10 minutes!

    IMAG1630_1.jpg

    The existing keyway on the (7/8") motor shaft was rather wide and thin. I cut a new keyway on the opposite side of the existing one. Forum member caskwarrior has suggested filling the old keyway with JB weld or something. I may do that if I get inspired.

    IMAG1634.jpg

    Those with weak stomachs for dodgy-looking milling machine workholding setups can look away but this was quite stable for the very-shallow DOC I was taking. I used the vise jaw top edges like a v block and strapped it down. It was true with very little effort:

    IMAG1638.jpg

    The astute will notice the front bearing is still on. I couldn't get that bugger off!

    Done:

    IMAG1639.jpg

    No photo, but the pulley with key is a good fit on the shaft. I ended up cutting the motor shaft keyway a bit too deep but such is life.

    I'll not be putting the pulley on the motor in anger until I get one new bearing for the motor and get a mounting made for the motor. Unfortunately, you cant just bolt it in. That is next-ish.

    All comments welcome.

    Greg.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,945

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    Thanks for the informative description of the WIP. Will need to make one of your slotting attachments, very nice work by the way.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
    Posts
    1,225

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    Keysteel normally comes 1-2thou oversize so you can file it to fit the keyway. Progress looks good so far.

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

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    Kryn, thank mate. I was happy with how it came out and not too hard to make. I got some small chatter marks on the base of the keyway so whether that is this tool or general shaper setup, who knows. I'll debug that sometime.

    snapatap. Thanks. I have read that - though my experience has varied. For example, if you get the H&F box of various keys, they're atrocious - 10 thou undersize or so. Kind of ridiculous. Thanks re 'progress'.

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

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    Coming along nicely. I'm really enjoying your WIP and the efforts you are going to in not only the work but also the time taken to take the (quality) pics. Your slotting attachment for your shaper is a nice little spin off. That's a small work of art in it's own right.

    Edit: soon you will have to change the thread name. It's no longer a basket case!
    Re-birth of the Brown and Sharpe No. 2 Surface Grinder has a ring to it!

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #162
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    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    843

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    Simon, thanks. It sure is great to get encouragement and support. Appreciated.

    Re "no longer a basket case". We'll save that for when it is running again. The hard stuff is yet to come. ) ... gears .. and go back and look at the pics of the spindle. Phew. )

    Greg.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

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    Hi all,

    Working my way through my list of stuff for Mrs Brown's lower half (let the jokes roll in).

    It'll never work without a running motor. El-cheapo VFD Arrived this week. Cheapest I could find. $109 inc delivery with a $20 ebay voucher. Pretty amazing I think. The manual is understandable, but the parameter defaults are stupid.

    This guy:

    1.5KW 2HP 7A 220VAC SINGLE PHASE VARIABLE FREQUENCY DRIVE INVERTER VSD VFD | eBay

    I am a complete electrical dunce and even I managed to make it work so not too bad. Note: this one has no 'frequency knob'. It is for the grinder and though I might change speeds for different size wheels (maybe) it ain't that important.

    Like some scenes from a Frankenstein film:

    IMAG1665.jpgIMAG1660.jpg

    After a small bearing mismatch crisis I got the motor (thanks Joe!) back together. A big shout-out for Southern Bearings in Abbortsford Melbourne. Good old-fashioned service and good prices - and open on Saturday mornings to boot. No connection with them, just a happy customer. A new bearing meant the motor could finally go back together and thus the newly sleeved/slotted pulley could go on. It fit like a dream (last 1/3 very firm but not stupid) so happy with that.

    IMAG1671.jpgIMAG1670.jpg

    The motor needs mounting and there are three mounting holes on the grinder body for a plate supposedly to give 3-axis adjustment. Originally there was a motor plate supplied, but that is missing so I just drilled/tapped some mild steel bars to hold the front and rear of the motor - I'll show more when it is in. The extra holes are because I stuffed up.

    IMAG1672.jpg

    The paint is VHT engine satin black - I didn't bother removing scale etc .. I just rough sanded it and gave it a rust primer then hit it with some black. No big deal.

    According to the parts list, the rack pinion shaft 'knurled knob' has a 'star spring washer' underneath it. I haven't the foggiest ídea how string it is supposed to be but my prototypes of a 'star spring washer' are not worth showing - really. Instead, I bludged a spring from forum member 'caskwarrior'. I have no solid idea how the knob/spring/etc is supposed to operate (the manual says to *loosen* the knob to engage - yes, one of those weirdos) so I have roughed a large knob utilising said spring. When things are running I'll figure what works in practice and the knob will get knurled or something.

    IMAG1676.jpgIMAG1675.jpg

    The table 'reversing lever' flicks to-and-fro by hitting 'dogs' on the table front. I've not made those yet but the means to dis/engage the lever is a thingy held firm by a flat spring. The spring I had was toast and rusted and I broke it during disassembly, so I made a new one. A member here suggested that paint scrapers are spring steel and indeed they are. Bunnings supplied the raw material for $2.50:

    IMAG1651.jpgIMAG1652.jpg

    And the result:

    IMAG1662.jpgIMAG1664.jpgIMAG1663.jpg

    before:

    IMAG0417.jpgIMAG0281.jpgIMAG0283.jpg

    Comments and suggestion welcome.

    Greg.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

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    Some more work towards getting the base running again. I have some stuff to scrounge, but I'll post that in a separate scrounge thread.

    In terms of mechanical things left to make or fix for the base, it is really just the bevel gear tooth and the other two gears. Oh, and maybe a belt, but that might depend on how successful my scrounging is.

    I have assembled the carriage and stuff to test the new cross feed screw:

    IMAG1680.jpgIMAG1678.jpg

    I am happy to report only about 5 thou backlash with the new screw. Not that it is important on this machine. Just surprisingly small given the worn state of other things.

    The auto-stop works as intended. Amazing that it does - even the auto cross feed stop dogs work as you'd expect..

    IMAG1687.jpgIMAG1685.jpgIMAG1684.jpgIMAG1681.jpg


    (note that the newly painted bits show up quite differently under a flash - in the flesh it is not a bad match)

    There is a carriage 'tray' and gubbins that helps protects the innards from stuff and it also holds the oil reservoirs for lubrication down there. The lubrication system is very sweet - little brass drip tubes winding about. They were all bent to hell, so needed adjusting. Yes, some paint cleanup required there but aren't they lovely. )

    IMAG1692.jpgIMAG1691.jpgIMAG1690.jpg

    Greg.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    843

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    Hi all,

    A late Sunday update.

    But first, I just want to say thank you to those offering 'likes' and 'thanks'. As silly as it may seem, I get encouragement knowing that others find the posts on this old girl interesting. And no, that is not a request for them - this ain't facebook or whatever. No stress, just sayin' thanks. )

    I met forum member RayG this week to snaffle a serpentine belt and his words were also very encouraging. Thanks for the kind words Ray, and also the belt. )

    This week, the clutch unit got torn down again for a final cleanup and also to fix the rubbishy taper pins holes and to re-ream some suspect ones. This guy was the worst - went from #2 to the thick end of a #3 (note the amount of swarf)

    IMAG1704.jpgIMAG1705.jpgIMAG1706.jpg

    The oil drain reservoir in the grinder body had a damn hole it - so I plugged it with gasket stuff:

    IMAG1707.jpgIMAG1708.jpg

    You made recall I made some screw-top taper pins. I thought I give case-hardening them a go. It worked well but the bunnings propane torch struggled to keep even something so small red hot.

    Thanks to Phil Fehring (mactool) for the free sample of "Cherry Red". It leaves the piece caked, but the wire wheel and dremel sorted that.


    IMAG1710.jpgIMAG1712.jpgIMAG1714.jpgIMAG1715.jpg

    I finally got the motor mounted. Crikey, there is hardly a bee's d*ck of room for it to fit and I had it in and out quite a lot while I fiddled with the mounts to make sure the pulleys lined up. The bloody thing must weigh 20kg. Ruined my back so I had a nap afterwards. )

    IMAG1716.jpg

    Onto the broken bevel gear tooth.

    I posted some questions here:

    //metalworkforums.com/f65/t2009...r-tooth-repair

    In the end, I decided not to braze or build up or fix in pins etc - I made a new tooth to have a good press fit into a slot and used loctite-permanent (red). Why? Lots of reasons - but mainly because the bevel has a complex changing radius involute and hand-filing it was going to take a few attempts. I just wanted a 'plug' I could take in and out and work on and have more than one go if needed (which I did need).

    In the end, after some attempts, I had a repair - not one I was amazingly happy with, but a repair none-the-less. No awards to be won but hand-filing this shape is hideously difficult. I didn't end up with the perfect complex involute shape, but I did end up with a tooth that engaged reasonably along its flanks. 12 hours in one day doing that was enough ....

    I used the tilting vice to get the angle right and mill a slot:

    IMAG1717.jpgIMAG1718.jpgIMAG1719.jpg

    Then I machined/filed a plug to fit and also machined an initial taper on it:

    IMAG1720.jpgIMAG1721.jpgIMAG1724.jpg

    I blued the mating gear, and after a long time, including an extended power outage and armed with a lamp, filed and cursed and swore my way to a sub-satisfactory result - but a result none-the-less.

    IMAG1725.jpgIMAG1726.jpgIMAG1728.jpgv

    With a few more goes it might have been a lot better, but man it takes a long time so this is good enough for now to get an old machine going again. Apologies to the gear zealots.

    Thanks again all kind words and encouragement.

    Greg.

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