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6th Jul 2016, 09:14 PM #1Philomath in training
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Anyone know how to use a tank cutter?
I bought one of these years ago and have tried to use it every so often on sheet metal but it just does not want to work for me.
A tank cutter is one of these -
TC-2-6.jpg
(a treppaning tool really)
I've been running it in the drill press at the slowest speed (around 150rpm) and all it seems to do is go blunt. Today's effort was in some 1.2mm thick steel sheet - suitable material I would have though.
Has anyone use them successfully? I've seen some with a square style brace and bit end on them - do I need to go even slower?
Michael
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6th Jul 2016, 10:03 PM #2Most Valued Member
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- May 2011
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- Murray Bridge S Aust.
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Michael, are you using a cutting compound?? Did it come from china?? Chinese tool steel isn't the best quality. Looked on google, it said to run on slowest speed possible and to use coolant/cutting compound.
They can be used in a hand drill, so not a lot of pressure required. Apart from that can't help you, sorry.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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6th Jul 2016, 10:05 PM #3Senior Member
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- May 2012
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- Vermont 3133 Victoria
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- 248
Hi Michael,
I have one but I am fairly sure it was marked as a tile cutter, mine has a carbide bit on the cutter.
Cheers
Bruce
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6th Jul 2016, 10:53 PM #4Mechanical Butcher
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- Oct 2004
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- Southern Highlands NSW
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- 1,894
I use one when I have to, like for big holes when I don't have a hole saw.
I never enjoy a smooth operation, but it does help make the hole I want.
I replaced the supplied cutting bit with some HSS.
Jordan
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7th Jul 2016, 12:50 AM #5Golden Member
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- Oct 2008
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- Cairns, Q
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Like nadroj I use mine when there is no alternative. The drill press is a bit too fast on the lowest speed, and a portable drill is difficult to hold steady enough to keep the cut depth uniform - often in thin sheet steel one side of the circle breaks through before the other and the cutter then tends to snag where the cut restarts. It usually gets the job done eventually though. Mine has a 1/4" (I think) round shank with a square section below it so it can be held in a carpenter's brace, which is probably more controllable than a portable drill.
Mine came with one end of the HSS cutter sharpened as a trepaning tool and the other as a knife. This does work well for cutting circular gaskets in normal gasket materials or rubber insertion sheet.
Frank.
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7th Jul 2016, 01:02 AM #6future machinist
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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- nowra
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- 1,598
I have an old eclipse tank and washer cutter which has carbon steel blades. On the box it says run at 25 to 60 rpm, I have run it on the mill to make 1 mm thick copper washers I didnt try steel but it worked well going slow.
BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE
Andre
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7th Jul 2016, 02:01 AM #7
I have one too - about 30 years old. HSS toolbit, but I've only ever successfully used it in plywood and plastics. It does work best at much slower spped. I got it cutting nicely in some bakelite at about 60rpm. But the problem remains the breaking through moment. As soon as it cuts the first bit through, the cutter hooks up. It then either chips, throughs the workpiece around or (preferably) stops the drive. In the drill press I manage to keep control by ensuring the belt isn't tight and the spindle stops. In the mill there seems to be too much inertia and it tends to pull the workpiece out of whatever you clamp it to. It is best to anticipate that and arrange that the workpiece an then spin rather than break.
The only way I an imagine it working is with zero backlash in the feed and very fine feed at the very end. A brace might allow you to use it by hand on thin steel (tank wall), but you would only use it to thin the metal and then punch or snip the circle out.
Oh, and keep any part of you body well away if you use it in a machine tool!
Overall, I consider it an 'emergency tool' for cutting or cutting out a circle when there is no other option.... I reaally would prefer a loose hacksaw blade and duct tape handle on thin steel. It is that bad.Cheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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7th Jul 2016, 07:55 AM #8Philomath in training
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- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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- 6,541
Thanks for the responses guys.
I had everything clamped down and was using some lubricant/ coolant so it sounds like it is related to speed but it also seems to be a tool of last resort. I also had the tool catching when breaking through as others have reported. I had hoped for a nice uniform radius but after cleaning up 'the cut' (more of a scrape really) I think it is skewed out of position. Not that it matters in this case (just a clearance radius for a spacer) but I used it so I did not have to spend 1/2 an hour to set up the R/T for a minute of cut. I probably lost that 1/2 hour in stuffing around...
Michael
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7th Jul 2016, 01:50 PM #9Golden Member
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- Jun 2004
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- Kyabram. Vic
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- 632
My understanding is that they were the only resort, apart from tin snips in sheet metal many years ago; and were driven by a carpenters brace.
Ken
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7th Jul 2016, 11:36 PM #10
I have one that has 2 cutters. One either side. A bit of fiddling to get them aligned. Like Joe I only use it in plywood and plastics. I generally flip the work over and break thru from the other side. It seems to work better this way. I have cut up to 19mm thick ply. It has carbon steel cutters.
Dean
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8th Jul 2016, 08:00 AM #11
Hi Guys,
I have one of both types, single and dual blade. They do need to be run quite slowly. Using them with a brace is probably the safest way on metal, for plastics and wood their not too bad. If I need a large hole I prefer to go and buy a proper hole cutter. Much safer and less risk of getting injured.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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8th Jul 2016, 08:08 AM #12Most Valued Member
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- Oct 2007
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- Sydney
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- 3,112
I have one Michael, but haven't used it for years.
Stick some contact paper on to the back of the material before setting it up, it will hold the waste as you break through.
Regardless of the tool I use, the cutting speed will be roughly the same. So if you have some decent HSS in there I use 30 m/min (100 fpm) irrespective of the operation; the tool doesn't know what it's attached to. I just punch the diameter into my calculator and it spits out an rpm. Use that as a starting speed and see how it goes. Vibration and balance has been my biggest woe.
The grind on those tools is a bit funky to get clearance and the supplied cutting bit rubbish.
edit: just found this page while on train. http://www.swissprec.com/PDF/BRAND/2008/102.pdf that's the gold standard for these types of trepanning tools. Ignore the rake on the top of the tool, that is there due to the dragging geometry, but the brand gave me a few ideas of what I was trying to achieve when trepanning. One if these tools would be an interesting project. Speeds they quote match those I suggested above
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8th Jul 2016, 02:03 PM #13Philomath in training
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- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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Thanks Pete
That's the sort of geometry that I would expect to see - the 'as supplied' geometry was really just scratching a way through.
The one constant comment though from everyone is speed. It looks like it needs to be next to nothing and not much more.
Michael
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8th Jul 2016, 02:30 PM #14
I used to have one of these, but I haven't seen it for years, last time I remember using it was to cut some circles out of MDF or maybe plywood, there were two cutters, one for cutting inside, and one for cutting outside, They never worked very well as I recall, I used it on the drill press and remember it catching and slipping the belts all the time.
I think I was making wheels for a wooden toy?
Ray
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9th Jul 2016, 02:27 AM #15Most Valued Member
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- Oct 2007
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- Sydney
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Yes I seem to recall the supplied cutter being rubbish. Like Ray, I found mine was typically only ever used to cut MDF and sheet metal.
With a decent piece of properly ground HSS in there I don't see any reason they shouldn't do a reasonable job, though I'll add that I've personally always found trepanning operations to be as much art as science.
With the speeds, I think what misleads some people is the diameter of the work, and the impression the tool isn't going fast. A 6" or similar diameter is definitely not unusual for a tool like this. At that diameter, 30 m/min is only around 60 rpm, which is probably much slower than we are typically expecting to see. Try it with the standard carbon steel they're supplied with, and, even after fixing the grind, you'd probably be lucky to spin it at 1/2 or even 1/3 the above! I can't recall what the lowest rpm of my drill press is, but I think many drill presses would be struggling to achieve a low enough rpm to spin these tools at the appropriate speed for the diameters often used. Instead they're probably spun much too fast, with the inevitable poor outcome. ie the tool blunts very quickly and doesn't do a good job even before it does dull.
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