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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    UK
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    4

    Question Looking for help on project

    Hi.

    I'm looking to make a custom Zippo lighter for a friend of mine (as a gift). I was going to by one and engrave his name onto it but fill the engraving with gold. I'm completely new to metal working but I've always wanted to try it and even if I mess this project up it won't be a huge deal (except if I waste gold.)

    I was wondering the following things:
    • Whats the simplest, cheapest way to melt gold?
    • When adding the gold to the Zippo do I try to make the engravings deep enough so the gold flows through it or do I just pour gold all over the surface where the engravings are then just remove the liquid gold, having filled the engravings?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    59
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    6,541

    Default

    To start with, I'm not a jeweler, so I may have it completely wrong but there are several things that you need to bear in mind-
    • The metal on the lighter will not be very thick, so while able to be engraved will probably not cope with the sort of deep engraving that you would need to key a cast-in insert into
    • I don't know what the lighter body is made from but probably not gold so there will be different expansion rates for the two metals. The melting point of gold is over a thousand degrees C, so you may have the situation where the liquid metal solidifies and once everything is cool the insert is loose because the gold has contracted more than the base metal or has contracted less and wants to pop out.
    • 1000C is not a small temperature. Finding a heat source that will get your gold to that temperature is not simple and you would need a suitable crucible that will not oxidise or contaminate the gold. - all not cheap.


    If I wanted to do this (fill an engraving with gold), the approach I would take is to talk to a metal plating shop; see if they are able to plate the part (or the engraving locally) and then buff/ polish the thin layer of gold off the rest of the part. It won't need to be thick to look 'gold', so would be cheaper too.

    Good luck
    Michael

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Ballarat
    Age
    65
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    3,103

    Default

    What about making a piece with gold inlay that can be soldered onto the lighter.

    Phil

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    149

    Default

    If you are REALLY ambitious.........

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM0VnL30rDc

    ...chisel some undercut pockets, and fill 'em up with gold sheet or wire.

    Neil

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
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    63
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    4,049

    Default

    There are crucibles on EBay that are quite cheap.

    16oz Gold Graphite Crucible CUP Tongs 2 Melting Bowl Ingot Mold Casting | eBay

    This looks like a starter kit and is only $22.99.

    I think you should look at jewellery sites for information on this subject tho.

    Dean



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4

    Default

    But how do I generate the 1000C heat needed to melt gold

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
    Age
    68
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    306

    Default

    I'm not a jeweler either.
    However, gold is very malleable meaning that a thin gold wire or sheet can be pushed or hammered into a shallow engraving of the right shape and encouraged to conform to the shape.

    It might be more cost effective to have a jeweler insert the gold as they have means of recovering and reusing any excess gold.
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Far West Wimmera
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    63
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeviM View Post
    But how do I generate the 1000C heat needed to melt gold
    LPG will provide a high enough temperature. It is just a matter of getting a torch that provides enough heat energy.

    Dean

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
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    54
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    825

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    G'day Levi and welcome to the forum.
    Gold inlay of the type I think you are describing is done by cutting the design into the base metal with an undercut, typically by hand using a graver. Gold wire which has been drawn to a diameter that matches the width and depth of the design is then laid into the engraved area and swedged in so it fills the groove and is held in place by the undercut, no glue or solder of any kind is used. The protruding gold is then filed away to leave the surface flat and smooth. A friend of mine had the gold inlay restored on a flintlock pistol in his collection and I was lucky enough to watch it being done. One of his muskets has a gold stag inlay which protrudes proud of the barrel and has been further carved to make the design 3D, now that's the work of a true artisan. The restoration of the pistol was defiantly not a cheap exersise, the gold wire apparently needed to be 24 carat as the alloying metals in lower carat gold reduce its ductility and make it unsuitable for inlaying finely detailed engravings.
    I'm not sure if the case of a Zippo would be thick enough to allow for inlay engraving as it needs to be cut fairly deep. I have seen Zippos with gold and other colours used to highlight engravings but I'm not sure of the techniques used. Perhaps gold leaf or painting then finishing with a protective sealer might be a possibility.
    Good luck with your project and hopefully you can post some photos of the finished lighter.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
    Age
    68
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    306

    Default

    to add, the contraction (in dimensions) of gold from molten at around 1070°C to solid at room temperature (25°C) is almost certainly enough to ensure that any casting will fall out of its mold.

    swagging gold leaf or wire into the engraving would seem to be the best option
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Either engrave or have the lighter engraved, then have a manufacturing jeweller gold plate the engraving or you could use gold leaf and do it yourself.
    Personally I would go with hand engraving as it looks a lot more classy also takes a lot more practice

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Thanks for the quick replies.

    I have decided (because the case of the Zippo is rather thin) to instead make a silver plate and engrave onto that. Any tips on how to do this?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    LeviM

    A big welcome to our forum,
    I am not trying to chase you away, by any means, but would suggest that this forum is not the ideal place to get the best answers for the questions about working gold you are asking.


    We as a group, are mostly about light engineering, machining, blacksmithing fabrication and welding. On those topics we are one of the top ranking sites on the net to find answers and quickly respond.

    My late father was a watchmaker / jeweler and my base knowledge of gold jewelry , so my limited jewelry knowledge is from what I picked up through him.


    I am personally unable to recall anyone else interested in a jewellery topic -outside of watchmakers lathes -posting here in this forum at least in the 14 years or so I have been present.

    As mentioned, a manufacturing jeweler is very likely to have the answers you seek.

    Have you made this inquiry on any jewelry sites? Jewelry hobbyists much more likely, are better equipped to answer your questions about gold.

    I would suggest having a look on an gun or knife engraving site or at least having a look at a Utube like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQH1OTgNntw.

    From there you will notice there is quite an expenditure on tooling alone before any engraving or inlay is performed.

    When you complete the project, your posts on the how to will be very welcome.

    Cheers
    Grahame

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    LeviM

    A big welcome to our forum,
    I am not trying to chase you away, by any means, but would suggest that this forum is not the ideal place to get the best answers for the questions about working gold you are asking.


    We as a group, are mostly about light engineering, machining, blacksmithing fabrication and welding. On those topics we are one of the top ranking sites on the net to find answers and quickly respond.

    My late father was a watchmaker / jeweler and my base knowledge of gold jewelry , so my limited jewelry knowledge is from what I picked up through him.


    I am personally unable to recall anyone else interested in a jewellery topic -outside of watchmakers lathes -posting here in this forum at least in the 14 years or so I have been present.

    As mentioned, a manufacturing jeweler is very likely to have the answers you seek.

    Have you made this inquiry on any jewelry sites? Jewelry hobbyists much more likely, are better equipped to answer your questions about gold.
    If you read the last reply before yours (from me) I detail how my plan has changed, and how it no longer includes gold.

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