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  1. #1
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    Default Disc and belt sander

    Gday guys, I am looking at purchasing a disc and belt sander for general use with metal working, anything from finish grinding on HSS lathe and drill bits and deburring of metal parts etc. A machine such as this http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L1335 or this http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L109
    Any reason these are in the wood working section of H&F as they seem useful for general metalwork as well. Am I missing something?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    They are probably better associated with timber due to the slower speeds, coarseness of the belts and discs.

    No reason why you couldn't use one for metal work.

    Not sure about the vertical linisher, a horizontal may be better suited to metal.

    Not sure how these would go when using HSS.

    For deburring, chamfers finishing radi,not a problem even cleaning up black material , although heat transfer may be a concern.

  3. #3
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    Hi, I think the reason is that they are more a woodwork machine, I have the Woodfast disc sander and find it great, what you may find is that sanding discs and belts to suit meta,l may not be available in the sizes to suit those 2 machines. It would pay to contact The Sandpaper Man listed on the RHS here to check availability.
    Kryn

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    Thanks for the replys, I wouldn't use them in an industrial heavy duty sense more to help with cleaning and finishing surfaces. for sure would need to check on sanding material for metal.
    Shows aluminium oxide belts

  5. #5
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    Default Speed.

    Speed, typically metal belt grinders spin at 3000rpm or thereabouts whilst linishers for wood spin at roughly half that.

    Wood linishers have a hard aluminium front drum whereas belt grinders generally have a rubber front wheel. With a hard ally front drum you have to be careful not to wear through the belt and score the alloy drum, same applies to using the disk.

    You can use a belt grinder or linisher for both wood and steel but obviously a linisher spinning at 1400rpm is not ideal for metal, similarly a belt grinder spinning at 3000 rpm is also not ideal for timber because it will burn the timber if not careful.

    A linisher/belt grinder with a rubber front wheel, side disk and variable speed would be good for both wood and metal as speed is the main factor. However, there are some problems: when grinding steel you generally have to quench the steel this is then transferred to the belt, which, when wet, tends to bubble or expand. The velcro backed disks on side are easily ripped with metal so care is necessary.

    I've ripped a couple of disks and initially bubbled a couple of belts before I learn't to dry the steel before grinding.

    I have a 150mm x 1200mm belt and 225mm disk linisher and while it only spins at around 1400rpm it still does a good job with steel. Of course there is nothing to stop you upgrading a linisher like this to a variable speed motor and also adding a rubber front drum/wheel. I've been thinking about this conversion, via belts/pulleys and quite probably a bigger motor. There are bearings in the drums so it is quite capable of handling higher speeds. the wider 150mm belt is very handy for metal work also. Some of the cheaper/smaller linishers don't have bearings in the drums.

    I got mine from Gasweld:
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  6. #6
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi77 View Post
    Gday guys, I am looking at purchasing a disc and belt sander for general use with metal working, anything from finish grinding on HSS lathe and drill bits and deburring of metal parts etc. A machine such as this http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L1335 or this http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L109
    Any reason these are in the wood working section of H&F as they seem useful for general metalwork as well. Am I missing something?
    Thanks
    Woodworking sanders are usually 1440 rpm to reduce the chances of burning wood. Metal working linishers are usually 2850 rpm but even faster speeds are better to efficiently finish metal. If you have a look at big linishers they often use larger wheels to increase the linear belt speed.

    The WW sanders will work on metal at low speeds but they just won't be as efficient and you will tend to wear through belts faster as it's difficult for operators to get the grinding performance so they tend to press harder on the belt. With a MW finisher only light pressure is needed it remove metal.

    Some linishers have multiple or variable speeds so they can be used for wood and metal

    This was a 2 speed 3HP 4P finished that I converted to 240V 3P variable speed. http://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...=183254&page=2


  7. #7
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    With good belts grinding HSS is a piece of cake with a linisher. Unfortunately most of the really good belts are made in 2" wide to suit machines like the multitool, radius master and the bigger 72" belt grinders.

    Belt speed is not a fixed calculation, courser belts like to run faster and finer belts slower.

    Rubber contact wheels or a slack belt is generally better for de-burring tasks than a platen, but the platen is good for flatening etc. Heavy use with steel on any platen will cause wear though as the platens can get very hot.
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  8. #8
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    thanks for the info and good points relating to the rubber drums and backing for the disc sander. where would you purchase specific drums and rubber disc backing to change for the better use for metal work?

  9. #9
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    You might better off starting with something designed for metal finishing

    http://www.blackwoods.com.au/browse/...003853?c=Group

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    Cheers George,
    it looks hard to beat the http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L1335 for value for money as an all rounder that can tackle a lot of sanding needs

  11. #11
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    The disk is not so muck of a problem as the sand paper is stuck to the disk, not moving over it. You can put ceramic glass on the platen if you want a nice flat surface, graphite cloth works too but you can wear grooves in it.
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  12. #12
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    Have you looked at the Multi Tool system. I am surprised that some of the many owners have not posted comments.There have been extensive threads on them here before and they have a very good following in the metalwork areas.They are very useful and versatile and cost effective.

    I would use mine sometimes two or three times a day. There is an almost endless application for the tool and spare parts are readily available,though the only part I have ever replaced was the rubber wheel due to my incorrect use in sharpening something - OK my fault.

    As a light fabricator I can with right attachments and correctly gritted belts.

    Can :
    Dress sharp edges on steel fabrication.
    Hollow grind screw drivers.
    Sharpen twist drill bits
    Remove rust
    Prep metal items for paint
    Polish -almost * with a very fine grit
    Shape metal plate and bar
    Reshape and smooth damaged cutting edges.
    Grind HSS lathe tools

    Belt changes occur in half a minute or so.

    This tool was designed by the same fellow as designed the radius master and has many well thought out features.Mine is approaching 30 years old.

    my 2 cents worth

    Grahame

  13. #13
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    Grahame is absolutely correct about the original multitool.
    A good friend of mine has one with some age on it that I used and liked.

    However, the one I purchased new, fitted with an Abbott & Ashby motor, was significantly out-of-balance.
    I glued metal washers onto the drive disc to try and get it close to acceptable.
    Perhaps the more expensive brand is worth the extra price.

    John.

  14. #14
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    As some may know i have had a lot to do with multitools (and belt grinders in general) over the last little while.

    The new mutitools are absolute crap compared to the old ones. The dive wheels are drunk, pressings are not as accurate, bearings in the wheels are cheap things. When John Price owned multitool he made a first class product but the new owners have sent the work offshore and the quality has dropped. They are still really useful but can be a pain to set up and get running right.
    On the up side some clever bloke makes a kit to upgrade the mutitool to make it even better......
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  15. #15
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    Have to agree with Ewan. The newer ones are absolute crap. Drive wheel machined off centre to the casting and the centre axle hole bored off square to the face and circumference. So they are out of balance, wobbles and run off centre. After 3 years or so I still haven't used mine. I have bored out the centre of the casting and fitted a new centre bush to fit the grinder. It is now hopelessly out of balance. One of these days I will try and obtain some mag wheel adhesive balance weights and try and balance it.

    All I can say is 'buyer beware' and look at the alternatives.

    Ken

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