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  1. #1
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default Washing machine pump as a coolant pump

    I have been using submersible water feature pumps for around 3 years as coolant pumps on my Hercus lathe and also on small metal cutting bandsaw.
    Both pumps use a magnet as a rotor so are susceptible to metal dust sticking to and eventually preventing rotor movement.
    The pump on the Hercus has never had a problem but I have lost count of the number of times I have cleaned the rotor on the bandsaw.
    I guess I should have realised that a bandsaw generates a lot more fine swarf than the lathe
    Things got a little better when I put two REE magnets in the return fluid flow path and slightly better again when I added third one in the fluid reservoir but I still have to clean it more than I'd like to so have been searching around for other pumps.

    One really nice pump I have in my stash is a pump from a washing machine. It's an all plastic single phase 240V and says 100W on the side and has 1" diameter, thick rubber intake hose and a 1" plastic outlet. Now clearly the flow rate would be too high for direct fluid flow so I would set it up like my lathe coolant system. This pumps the fluid continuously through a recirculating 20 mm PVC loop and use a tap in the loop to provide a slight constricting back pressure that drives some of the fund out of the pressurised side of the loop though a 1/4" PVC tube to the cutting tool. Eventually this fluid finds its way back to the coolant tank via other pathways. By manually adjusting the constricting tap a very wide range of fluid flow can be obtained but there is never any need to reduce the flow in the recirculating loop by very much to get a decent flow. I have since found out that this continually recycling aerates the fluid and prevents anaerobic bugs from growing in it.

    So my question is does anyone else use a washing machine pump as a coolant pump and what the pros and cons might be. A small con I can see is that the pump has a fan on in so it needs cooling so can't be totally sealed up like an water feature pump.

  2. #2
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    Default Coolant Pump.

    The insides of a washing machine are a fairly hot and hostile environment, so as long as the motor is protected from swarf and coolant splash it should survive OK.
    I have used pumps from evaporative air coolers and they work well, but are often nearly as expensive as a real coolant pump. The encapsulated windings last well, but moisture will penetrate the lower bearing in a few years, this is a cheap easy replacement job.
    Is it possible to treat any exposed windings on your pump with a spraycan of electrical insulating varnish before you instal it? Let us know how you get on, Combustor.
    Old iron in the Outback, Kimberley WA.

  3. #3
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    I am about to do the very same thing on the horizontal bandsaw I purchased a while back.
    I have fabricated the fluid return from a handbasin u bend that utilises a gauze filter and computer hard drive magnets taped to the outside of the ubend as as well.

    From cleaning out the pump so may times on our old washing machine, I think the pump design that allows the face of the pump to be unscrewed would be suitable and make any maintenance really easy.

    I note that other industrial grade machines I have seen ie with coolant containing metal fines have a (riffled?) board design much like a gold miners sluice board.That should trap the majority of the solids.

    That's probably the best way as it allows quick and easy access to remove the swarf.

    I will have visit the recycle center sometime soon and liberate an old WM pump.The pump pictured is an example from ebay.The face screws off with out tools.

    Grahame
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  4. #4
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Cheers Guys, very helpful.

    Grahame, That picture of the pump you posted is very similar to mine although I guess to some extent they probably all look the same. I do like the idea that they can be opened up to look inside them. I was thinking of mounting the pump inside a short length of 150 mm diameter PVC storm pipe which I have leftovers of from my dust extraction set up.

    I'm pretty bust with my play ground construction job at the moment but this is the sort of project that can be inserted in between others so I might be able to get onto this one fairly quickly

  5. #5
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    Hi there,

    your thread prompted me to do a search on ebay for washing machine pumps. Anyone looking for such an item is certainly spoilt for choice! All the ones I looked at were around the 30W power level, while this is probably sufficient for what we would want yours being rated at 100W must be an awesome pump!

    The only pitfalls I can see is make sure you get a complete pump assembly. I noticed that some listed are just the pump, as in motor and impeller without the casing which would be useless unless for anyone not using it on the same model/brand of washing machine. Some pumps I notice must be driven by a belt to a motor mounted off the pump assembly. That too would be a useless buy.

    Plenty new and refurbished pumps to be had for under $30 though. One question I have with using these pumps, given that they are a centrifugal pump, how do you get them going if you have them mounted above the liquid level in the coolant tank? With washing machines and the like, they are typically mounted below the liquid level and so will naturally prime, I assume you don't immerse the impeller in the liquid and so when not in use they will have air in the inlet. Does this affect their operation on startup?

    You have obviously overcome this problem since pond pumps are a similar design, but I'm interested to know how, unless they somehow self prime?

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    Hi Chris, is that meant for me?

    I read the posts in that thread and it does not explain anything to me. Dedicated machine coolant pumps have a long shaft that keeps the electricals dry but puts the impeller of the pump below the liquid level and so will always pump and remain primed. With a washing machine motor you don't have that luxury. The only way I can see it working is to have a non return valve on the inlet so that once it's primed, the coolant will stay up to the pump even when switched off.

    I must be missing something. I'll have another look.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #8
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Or put it next to the coolant tank with the inlet pipe either coming out of the side of the tank or even better (as cutting a hole in the side of the tank may lead to a leak down the track, even if you seal it up really well) run an upside down U shaped pipe from the bottom of the tank, over the side and down to the pump. You will need to prime it the first time but after that it will stay primed.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Or put it next to the coolant tank with the inlet pipe either coming out of the side of the tank or even better (as cutting a hole in the side of the tank may lead to a leak down the track, even if you seal it up really well) run an upside down U shaped pipe from the bottom of the tank, over the side and down to the pump. You will need to prime it the first time but after that it will stay primed.

    Ew
    Yea, that's probably the go. Actually you could easily cut a hole and then use a flange water tank connection. I like these ideas.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  10. #10
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Yea, that's probably the go. Actually you could easily cut a hole and then use a flange water tank connection. I like these ideas.
    Simon
    I'm going "pump by the side of the tank" route, and hole through the wall of the tank.
    I've already found the bits of Stormwater pipe and a few fittings so I've started building it already.

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    I know we all like paddling our own canoe, but surely it would be simpler, quicker and easier to just buy a coolant setup? By the time you muck around building/scrounging a tank, add fittings and jury rig a pump of questionable parentage, the $200 odd dollars for a proprietary setup that works out of the box seems pretty good value to me.
    Not having a go at anyone as such, but is it really worth it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    I know we all like paddling our own canoe, but surely it would be simpler, quicker and easier to just buy a coolant setup? By the time you muck around building/scrounging a tank, add fittings and jury rig a pump of questionable parentage, the $200 odd dollars for a proprietary setup that works out of the box seems pretty good value to me.
    Not having a go at anyone as such, but is it really worth it?
    Hi Karl,
    in my situation I have accumulated a lot of 'junk' over the years. So much so, I have pretty much enough components to build anything .
    I would need at least 2 years to save up the money for a store bought coolant system but if I was to make one I would not only get the satisfaction of 'I made that', I would also get to keep the skills alive.
    The added bonus is that I now have more room for junk.

    Phil

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    Being on a fixed income now I can't afford to buy a $130 pump. I am happy that at least ther'es another out there like me who likes to re use and recycle.

    That is a reason why ,when given an opportunity, I dismember any washing machines, microwaves and god knows whatever else that comes along for parts.

    Apart from that, I do like the idea of recycling and re-purposing an item so it has much better use than just as landfill. For the small coolant flow required for my little horizontal bandsaw , a washing machine pump will fulfill its purpose nicely.

    Grahame

  14. #14
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    . . . . . but is it really worth it?
    For you it sounds like it's not, but for others it can be more than worth it.

    Grahame and SW have already listed a few reasons that relate to me.
    Another significant one for me is plain and simple curiosity.
    Seeing if I can make it from the bits I already have is a challenge and often very useful learning opportunity.
    On some occasions I have spent more on the components of a project than what it would have cost to buy a cheap and simple version of it but by making it I learn't about how it is made and sometimes how to make it better.

    I an reminded of Ivan the Concreter who came around to lay the floor of the new section of my shed. He needed something so he came into the old section of the shed and asked me what I did in there. I pointed to a number of woodworking tools that I had made that were hung up around the shed walls and from the roof and he tokl a 1 second look and said. "What's the deal - haven't you heard of Bunnings?"

    For some it's the destination for others it's the voyage.

  15. #15
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    Same same for me. I have a finite budget available to me each year. If I spent it on things I can make then theres nothing left for when I want to buy something that I cant make. Theres a certain amount of fun in mocking up something with parts.

    I can see the other side of the agument too. Ebay has some cheap coolant setups.

    Simon

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