Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 147
  1. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default Crimping

    I've crimped (literally) thousands of connections and would suggest nothing more that pliers are required just depending on the type of connection used. I've seen many crimped connectors fail when I was in that industry, normally due either corrosion or mechanical failure. The environment we were using these in was very harsh marine environments, where the connections were sometimes even unintentionally fully submersed in sea water.

    To crimp a connector I'd strip the wire and pre-tin it with solder. Insert the wire into the connector and crimp it, often I'd just use pliers or even large side-cutters (obviously carefully). Then solder the connector to the wire. The solder will cause the crimp to swell, hence there's no need to go crazy with expensive crimpers. Complete the connection by folding the lugs over the wire. Don't do this before soldering or it will melt the wire. The solder will wick up the wire and move the mechanical hinge point away from the connector, normally that's an advantage and will help the mechanical strength but could be a consideration in tight situations as the wire becomes quite stiff for 10-20 mm.

    Industry loves crimped connections as they're extremely fast and just about any idiot to do it. However I don't like conventional crimped connections and have lost count of the number I've seen give problems. They may be quite reliable in theory, however often they're not crimped correctly. By backing the connection up with solder it seals the copper wire against corrosion, assures a good electrical connection, and provides an assured mechanical bond. It does however take much longer and a certain amount of skill in not overheating things. However I didn't ever have one connection fail, and still use this method to this day.

    Pete

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Hi Pete,

    Welcome back... good to see you've still kicking along... I'll argue with you about crimp connectors one day, not today..

    Ray

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Hi Pete,

    Welcome back... good to see you've still kicking along... I'll argue with you about crimp connectors one day, not today..

    Ray
    You won't be getting an argument out of me I'm afraid Ray, having made thousands of these connections that were situated in a very challenging environment I just related how I used to do crimp connections in the hope it may assist others who may not be able to afford, or otherwise justify an expensive crimping tool. If anyone wants to argue differently they can make their connections with Blu-tak for all I care. I'll add that the standard crimp connections, as might be purchased from typical retailers, aren't even approved in the aviation field for just the above reasons.

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    You won't be getting an argument out of me I'm afraid Ray, having made thousands of these connections that were situated in a very challenging environment I just related how I used to do crimp connections in the hope it may assist others who may not be able to afford, or otherwise justify an expensive crimping tool. If anyone wants to argue differently they can make their connections with Blu-tak for all I care. I'll add that the standard crimp connections, as might be purchased from typical retailers, aren't even approved in the aviation field for just the above reasons.
    Pete, if you have read my previous post where I mentioned the arguments regarding solder and crimp terminals, on the Renovators Forum, then you should know that is the same position I had at the time. The reasons against this method came thick and fast, and extremely technical. Don't let them find out what you are doing.

    Practical experience is what is most important to me, and I also have spent way too much time trying to track down dodgy terminals. I have yet to see a wire with fatigue of any kind after using solder.

    If people are having issues with this then maybe they are doing it different than me. I should add that none of the arguments I have heard were very credible. I do still want some crimping pliers tho.

    Dean

  5. #110
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Well I just finished putting this together using my new crimpers and I have to say I am really happy with them and it has motivated me to undertake more projects like that one

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    74
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    Pete, if you have read my previous post where I mentioned the arguments regarding solder and crimp terminals, on the Renovators Forum, then you should know that is the same position I had at the time. The reasons against this method came thick and fast, and extremely technical. Don't let them find out what you are doing.

    Practical experience is what is most important to me, and I also have spent way too much time trying to track down dodgy terminals. I have yet to see a wire with fatigue of any kind after using solder.

    If people are having issues with this then maybe they are doing it different than me. I should add that none of the arguments I have heard were very credible. I do still want some crimping pliers tho.

    Dean
    Hi Dean,

    Nothing wrong with soldered connections as such, if the only crimping tools you have are a pair of pliers or side-cutters and you don't own a decent crimping tool, then you don't have much choice..

    Strain relief is a little more important when soldered joints are subject to vibration or flexing, but then again, strain relief is important whatever method is used.

    And of course... there are many terminal types can only be properly terminated by crimping, and then only with the proper tool.

    Ray

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    Pete, if you have read my previous post where I mentioned the arguments regarding solder and crimp terminals, on the Renovators Forum, then you should know that is the same position I had at the time. The reasons against this method came thick and fast, and extremely technical. Don't let them find out what you are doing.

    Practical experience is what is most important to me, and I also have spent way too much time trying to track down dodgy terminals. I have yet to see a wire with fatigue of any kind after using solder.

    If people are having issues with this then maybe they are doing it different than me. I should add that none of the arguments I have heard were very credible. I do still want some crimping pliers tho.

    Dean
    I hadn't seen your posts on that forum Dean, but looked the thread up ... and even read the linked thread.

    Just to clarify from your posts in that thread, I would not advocate soldering and then crimping, there are very good reasons why this is bad practice and should be avoided. The method I described was still basically a regular crimp, but I then soldered the joint as well. It was a bullet proof way to terminate the connection and removed the possibility of a bad crimp. I find relying on the "pull test" idiotic in the extreme. In the linked thread there was a guy who used a similar process as I except with a solder pot, and like him I've had boats and ships awash/sink/storm damaged/struck by lightning/etc and didn't ever have ONE termination fail or give any issues whatsoever. EVER. In the meanwhile I repaired countless incorrectly crimped connections and/or replaced metres of cable where the corrosion had crept up the insulation and I'd have to keep chasing it back up until I found good wire. I thought I'd just pass it on, however I appreciate my experience is no substitute for the Google experts so I'll leave it there.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
    Posts
    2,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    In the meanwhile I repaired countless incorrectly crimped connections and/or replaced metres of cable where the corrosion had crept up the insulation and I'd have to keep chasing it back up until I found good wire. I thought I'd just pass it on, however I appreciate my experience is no substitute for the Google experts so I'll leave it there.
    My electronics techs had the best gear money could buy - it was your tax dollars after all - and generally, if it was an important joint, it was soldered then had 2 layers of heat-shrink over the top. Using tinned wire as standard.

    But that was a marine environment.

    My purely ignorant approach is, if it's high voltage (240-415V) and inside a house/shed, I crimp. If it's low voltage, I solder. If it's likely to be exposed to salt air, I use tinned wire, solder and heat shrink. Replacing cables running through bulkheads, inside deck heads etc is not something you want to do.... in my boat I've got dedicated cable ways under the deck head just so running cable is simple(r) and future work easier.

    YMMV.....

    PDW

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

    Default

    What is wrong with just twisting the wires together and a bit of insulating tape...

    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    What is wrong with just twisting the wires together and a bit of insulating tape...

    Yep, saw a fair bit of that under the dash of my 175 dollar FC Holden. Pretty standard stuff back in the early seventies when someone tried to wired up a car radio. Also a common feature on old Pommie bikes.

  11. #116
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,515

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    What is wrong with just twisting the wires together and a bit of insulating tape...

    Anyone would think you are a farmer......
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  12. #117
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lower Lakes SA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    2,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    What is wrong with just twisting the wires together and a bit of insulating tape...

    Tape? Luxury!

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    My plan is to use a couple of magnetic contactors to enable the remote switching of the VFDs via the grinder's control panel's momentary on and off switches. Below are a few photos of the type of contactor I'll use. They are obviously second hand. I don't know whether the quality of the existing connections is industry standard.

    Should my wires be tinned before securing them in the terminals?

    In some cases three wires will be secured in a single terminal. Previously I would have twisted the wires together with pliers and clamped them in the terminal en masse. There is insufficient room to accommodate 3 forked crimped on connectors, even two are tight. A soldered clump would also present a problem.

    Bob.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Hi BT,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Should my wires be tinned before securing them in the terminals?
    No.......don't tin under a mechanical joint.*
    If you really want to get excited just run the wire to a terminal block and loop to the other wires.

    Are you sure you need the contactors anyway? Have a look in Joe's/Simons threads about using momentary switches directly to the VSD.

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=183843

    Stuart

    * should add... if I was using fine multi strand wire I just might anyway............just coz it can make life easier......

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    I hadn't seen your posts on that forum Dean, but looked the thread up ... and even read the linked thread.

    Just to clarify from your posts in that thread, I would not advocate soldering and then crimping, there are very good reasons why this is bad practice and should be avoided. The method I described was still basically a regular crimp, but I then soldered the joint as well. It was a bullet proof way to terminate the connection and removed the possibility of a bad crimp. I find relying on the "pull test" idiotic in the extreme. In the linked thread there was a guy who used a similar process as I except with a solder pot, and like him I've had boats and ships awash/sink/storm damaged/struck by lightning/etc and didn't ever have ONE termination fail or give any issues whatsoever. EVER. In the meanwhile I repaired countless incorrectly crimped connections and/or replaced metres of cable where the corrosion had crept up the insulation and I'd have to keep chasing it back up until I found good wire. I thought I'd just pass it on, however I appreciate my experience is no substitute for the Google experts so I'll leave it there.
    My current practice for a number of years is to solder wires to terminals re my previous post. The mention of solder, then crimp was only made as I believe this is what started the furore on the Renovators Forum. If I remember correctly, there was a total rejection of the use of any solder, in relation to terminals by some posters. I also had an issue with using galv angle to mount tap fittings inside house walls. That also was a complete no-no. Nobody could show me why it was not suitable in my situation. The point made was along the lines that it is possible that it could cause a problem (in extreme circumstances) so don't do it. The plumber at work agreed with what they said. Completely correct was his answer. Then he laughed and said, "but you will long dead before any problem occurs". Some people have rigid beliefs that don't allow for circumstances. Inflexible people lack imagination. Imagination drives the world.

    I solder wires together and use heatshrink where suitable.

    Yep, saw a fair bit of that under the dash of my 175 dollar FC Holden.
    In my case it was a $150 EJ Holden Wagon. That was the first time I had to track down problem terminals. This was a problem with the stereo I installed. I gave up on the crimp connectors. I now avoid insulated crimp connectors unless they are soldered on. Sometimes I slide the insulation back on. If you do it quick the heat will allow it to slip on.

    The mate who bought this car off me connected positive wires by removing a fuse, putting the wire inside the holder clips and putting the fuse back in. Works best with bare wires.

    I had a problem with a car engine that cut out when I was turning fairly hard to the right. After some searching, I found that the wire supplying power to the breakerless electronic ignition system I had fitted was loose enough to swing across and touch the side of the engine bay. It was partially insulated, but there was enough exposed to short out.

    Dean

Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10th Mar 2014, 07:26 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •