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  1. #1
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default Taylor Hobson Mirco Alignment Scope

    Evening all,
    The Fedex man was nice to me today and delivered a rather large heavy box. It is a Engis badged unit, but has the Rank Taylor Hobson symbol and model number. Engis sold RTH gear in the USA.

    DSCN1690 (Large).jpg

    On first inspection all i thought i had was the standard scope and a globe power supply. This was a bit puzzling (and it had been since i hit the buy it now button) as to use a globe the unit would need a lamp housing, and yet there was not one, at least not one the same as all the pics i have seen.

    Anyway, i set it up an targeted a combi square ruler. The first 2 pics are from about 1.5m, the second 2 from more like 8.

    DSCN1671 (Large).jpgDSCN1676 (Large).JPGDSCN1683 (Large).jpgDSCN1685 (Large).jpg

    Something was puzzling me-rather then a plain blanking plate where the lamp housing would go there is a small lens and 2 brass lined holes. I removed the 3 screws to find that there was indeed all the filters/diffuses (whatever makes the light green) and beamsplitter. Maybe this is the Engis version of the lamp housing? I stuck a torch on the lens and an eerie green light emerged from the scope

    DSCN1688 (Large).jpg

    With the light on it can be used for 3 things, one to project the cross hairs onto a job for marking/alignment. This is supposed to be accurate to .002" at 100 feet.

    DSCN1697 (Large).jpg

    It can be used in Auto reflection mode. By targeting a mirror (a HDD disk stuck to an angle plate for this test) You can focus on the reflection of the rings on the cover glass target and by using the target graduations and the micrometers (which are +/- .050") you can calculate minor changes in angle of the target mirror, and therefor work out changes in height, much like the electronic levels do.

    DSCN1707 (Large).JPG

    Lastly there is Auto collimation, where you compare the actual cross hairs to the reflection of the cross hairs in the mirror. This is why the cross hairs are not symmetrical, so you can line up the single line in the middle of the double line, as the reflection comes back flipped left to right. For some reason i could not get a good focus on the reflected lines, it may be the light source or a problem with my mirror, or the scope itself. Either way i'm sure i'll figure it out.

    DSCN1711 (Large).JPG

    Thats about it for now, but for anyone wanting to read up.....

    http://ia600808.us.archive.org/18/it...lAlignment.pdf
    http://brunson.us/pdf/ManKE_Alignment.pdf

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  2. #2
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    Hi Ewan,

    Very impressive bit of gear, you and Stuart need to get together..

    How would it work for checking, say a lathe bed for wear?

    Ray

  3. #3
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    Default

    Well now doesnt that all look interesting. I think I've just had a moment. I've been reading that 0.050" as 50 thou which wasnt making any sense. Its of course(I think) degrees, which would make the 0.001" about 4 seconds?

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    How would it work for checking, say a lathe bed for wear?
    Don't know about checking a lathe bed Ray, but they are one method that can be used for checking a surface plate.

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Don't know about checking a lathe bed Ray, but they are one method that can be used for checking a surface plate.

    Michael
    I don't think that one can do a surface plate.... The auto-collimators for that sort of work that I have seen have graduations on their adjustment dials of 0.2 arc seconds.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  6. #6
    Ueee's Avatar
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    Stuart,
    The mics are graduated in thou for normal scope use. For auto reflection the mics and the target will give you the angle of incidence x2, so in theory you should be able to measure about .0005" over the distance you are from the mirror. I don't know just how well this will work in practice though. At close distance it will be ok but the further away the harder it will be to get the mics dead correct, but then if you can adjust to .001" over 2 feet (about 4 sec cause its really only .0005") then you only need to sight .005" over 10 feet.

    Ray,
    Give me a few weeks and i'll measure the Mar's travel to the best i can using both the scope and auto reflection. I have to wait for a couple of proper K&E targets i have bought to turn up.

    The other thing i want to do is get a little USB camera so i can see whats happening on a computer screen rather than bending down, looking and being at risk of bumping the scope. Of course i also have to make up a base.

    There are many things that can be done with an Auto Collimator but RC is right, the better ones are graduated in .02 sec, way finer than what this will do. Using this scope for auto coll you cannot use the mics as they are in front of the point that the image is reflected onto, so any movement negates its self out as the light comes back (not that it matters because you have auto reflection-more maths involved though). You need a mic on the eye piece to be able to measure the angle. With this scope Auto Coll can really only be used for checking square. The good thing with Auto Coll is you are measuring the incidence amount at a fixed distance so there is no maths to be done. The Auto Coll measures from the point where the reflected light hits the one of the lenses (depends on the type as to which one) to the mic. With auto reflection you have to do the maths (i see an excel sheet could be real handy here)

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  7. #7
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    G'Day Ewan, you certainly find some impressive kit, while I get my excitement from finding a nice combination square set (but without the blade), you come up with an allignment telescope by Taylor Hobson. It is somewhat above my level of expertise, so I,m enjoying the educational experience of this thread, and hopefully I should have a much better understanding of the capabilities and uses of this kind of equipment before much longer. I'm not sure what you paid for yours, but this appears similar, and if I've just illustrated my ignorance of these matters yet again, hopefully one of you gents will put me straight
    Nice Taylor Hobson England Micro Alignment Telescope Autocollimator with Case | eBay

  8. #8
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    Hi Rob,
    Ebay is awash with scopes, but most are somewhat ridiculously priced. Mine is one of only 3 that i would have considered reasonable since i have been on the lookout for one, which would be maybe 18 months. The one you have posted, other than looking a bit knocked around, is an older model, and has not got the lamp housing for auto reflection or auto collimation. The auto reflection target is also not graduated. Whilst you can make the housing a beamsplitter will cost you around $200 i think. Stu was on to one just like mine but the seller has done a back flip on the postage price. Oh, and mine was not much more than half of that one you posted.

    My K&E targets arrived today, i have set up to do a rough test of the Mars's ways but didn't get much further.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Thanks for the additional info Ewan, and I look forward to each new installment. Regards,
    Rob.

  10. #10
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    Well i checked the travel of the saddle this arvo, after a good morning chatting with Andre. He came down for a visit and to deliver the gravograph (and swap some gift etc).

    I set up a cheap webcam with a cardboard tube (from a paper towel roll) and plenty of masking tape. It seems to work ok but the software i have doesn't allow full screen viewing, need to find something better.

    I am not sure of just how accurate the test is, but it seems to be fairly consistent with what you would expect, except for one high reading with the LH side of the saddle 100mm from the edge of the gap in the bed. I double checked this but i got the same readings twice. The total difference was only .00085", less than i expected. The graph shows the pink line as the actual readings (the scope must not have been in line with the average level of the bed) and the blue line is the same only made so that the first and last readings are the same.
    I did an auto reflection run too, but i can't get the figures to work for me, the incidence angle was going down as the target got further away and not up I really think i need to make a stand and be able to get the scope on the correct plane before i try again.

    I don't have a pic of the targets i bought but this is them. Very non reflective and super high res printing. K E Keuffel Esser 71 6166 Adhesive Alignment Targets | eBay

    Cheers,
    Ew
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    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    It seems to work ok but the software i have doesn't allow full screen viewing, need to find something better.
    If I recall correctly all the camera/scopes software I have display at the res of the camera so making it bigger wont really do much for you I dont think....but if you want to try just change the screen rez.

    The rest I'll have to have a think about but its looking good so far

    Stuart

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