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  1. #1
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    Default Wohlhaupter Models

    I'm looking for a boring and facing head, and fancy lashing out on a Wohlhaupter, but the models and pricing are confusing...

    At first sight these two look the same, both have the Deckel S20x2 buttress thread, and are UPA3's but there is 500 euro difference in price... why?

    Does the taper adaptor type make that much difference?

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 MK4 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 SK40 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Regards
    Ray

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    I think the price difference is more due to demand rather than the amount of steel involved. Far more SK40 machines out there than MK4.

    Michael

  3. #3
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    Ray,

    What about Mizzogucci?? I know where you can have a look at one with iso40 shank.

    Ken

  4. #4
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    Hi Ray,
    There are 2 used Wohlhaupters on ebay in the UK at the moment, look pretty complete. Both 40 taper shanks, ones a UPA3 and ones a UPA4. Decent prices. I'm sure you can find them. I was considering the UPA3 and would have bought it except i have the UPA5-S6 already.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I'm looking for a boring and facing head, and fancy lashing out on a Wohlhaupter, but the models and pricing are confusing...

    At first sight these two look the same, both have the Deckel S20x2 buttress thread, and are UPA3's but there is 500 euro difference in price... why?

    Does the taper adaptor type make that much difference?

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 MK4 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 SK40 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Regards
    Ray

    Ray ,

    If you can wait a day or two a DVD should arrive stuffed full of Deckel delights along with a scanned Wohlhaupter brochure.

    The red dot visible on the 40 arbor indicates its removability. Shop on German Ebay and let me know if you chance upon a straight shanked UPA-2. When searching, you will find that most of the complete boxed sets are shockingly expensive. Orphaned heads can be more reasonably priced, though still expensive. Singer's is probably the most expensive place to shop. Still, for you Deckel owners, Singer is a source of unobtainium.

    BT

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    I just noticed something i did not know.....Wohlhaupter is owned, now at least, by Dapra. Thanks for the Red dot tip BT, i didn't know that
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I'm looking for a boring and facing head, and fancy lashing out on a Wohlhaupter, but the models and pricing are confusing...

    At first sight these two look the same, both have the Deckel S20x2 buttress thread, and are UPA3's but there is 500 euro difference in price... why?

    Does the taper adaptor type make that much difference?

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 MK4 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Wohlhaupter UPA3 SK40 S20x2 für Deckel Fräsmaschine | eBay

    Regards
    Ray

    Ray, the one with sk40 adaptor has a note in German"SK40 Aufnahme austauschbar". Meaning that the adaptor can be swapped out.

    The one with MT4 does not say if its adaptar can be swapped out or not. Maybe they just forgot to mention... but maybe it is indeed a different model with integral MT4 adaptor??

    By the way, the lesser price "exkl MwSt" means without the German VAT tax. Applies only if sold to outside the European Union, then the buyer does not need to pay this 18% tax.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post

    By the way, the lesser price "exkl MwSt" means without the German VAT tax. Applies only if sold to outside the European Union, then the buyer does not need to pay this 18% tax.
    Looks like I got clipped yesterday. Pete F informed me that there was a Hommel Werke Hoehenmikrometer (height master) for sale on German Ebay for a low 90 EUR so I bought it. The seller showed both the VAT inclusive and exclusive prices. 90 was inclusive. That's what I ended up paying.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Ray ,

    If you can wait a day or two a DVD should arrive stuffed full of Deckel delights along with a scanned Wohlhaupter brochure.

    The red dot visible on the 40 arbor indicates its removability. Shop on German Ebay and let me know if you chance upon a straight shanked UPA-2. When searching, you will find that most of the complete boxed sets are shockingly expensive. Orphaned heads can be more reasonably priced, though still expensive. Singer's is probably the most expensive place to shop. Still, for you Deckel owners, Singer is a source of unobtainium.

    BT
    Thanks BT, I'll keep an eye out for a straight shanked UPA2, yes Singer has a pretty good selection of weapons grade unobtanium bits for Deckel..

    Thanks Ken & Ewan, I'll check out the Mizoguchi, and those UK ebay sales... and see if I can get an arbor to suit.. it's a non-standard draw bar thread. S20x2 is a buttress thread ( sometimes called artillery thread ) designed not to jam when subjected to heavy shock loads like artillery... There are adaptors that are S20x2 one end and M16 on the other side to suit a standard M16 drawbar, I think I'll have to go down that track if I'm going to get better pricing on tooling.

    Ok, here's a video of a Mizoguchi
    Mizoguchi Boring Facing head - YouTube Wohlhaupter clone.

    Hi cba_melbourne,
    I bought some stuff off Franz Singer earlier today, and yes he subtracted the EU tax and also gave me a lower price on a couple of items... The ones with the red dot, as BT noted, apparently have removable arbors, which is handy to note, if the seller doesn't mention the "
    austauschbar" facility..

    Regards
    Ray





  10. #10
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    Ray,

    Most Wolhaupters have a model number etched or engraved into the lower right front side. The brochure features a section on removable arbors. The model numbers for chucks with those arbors are provided. It is sometimes difficult to determine from a seller's photos what specific model it is that they are selling other than the size, UPA-1, 2, 3 ,4...... The removable arbor model is longer overall than the fixed version.

    BT




  11. #11
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    Ray

    Why I mentioned the mizo is they are purportedly equal to the Wooley Hopper and a direct copy.

    Picked up in Gisborne for 550 or so; boxed with nearly all accessories. That was a much more attractive pricewise than importing a WH.

    Ken

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    I'll be watching this with interest Ray, what taper do you have on your machine? I've been looking for one in a W20 taper but they're virtually impossible to find from what I've seen. I'd like to know more about the ones with the replaceable arbours and what size the arbour is. If I can remove the arbour I will look at turning up a replacement, the difficulty from what I've seen is the pitch, as it's a 1.6667 mm pitch

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Looks like I got clipped yesterday. Pete F informed me that there was a Hommel Werke Hoehenmikrometer (height master) for sale on German Ebay for a low 90 EUR so I bought it. The seller showed both the VAT inclusive and exclusive prices. 90 was inclusive. That's what I ended up paying.
    I believe there is additional paperwork for the seller to remove the MwSt tax. So they are reluctant to do it, if its only a small amount to be saved. But one can always ask.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    I'll be watching this with interest Ray, what taper do you have on your machine? I've been looking for one in a W20 taper but they're virtually impossible to find from what I've seen. I'd like to know more about the ones with the replaceable arbours and what size the arbour is. If I can remove the arbour I will look at turning up a replacement, the difficulty from what I've seen is the pitch, as it's a 1.6667 mm pitch

    Pete
    HI Pete,

    The Deckel is SK40 taper... ISO 40 taper should fit, but there are quirks... the drive dogs are slots, rather than tabs, so a drive ring is needed, and the standard drawbar is a non-standard S20x2 buttress thread..

    Regards
    Ray

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    I believe there is additional paperwork for the seller to remove the MwSt tax. So they are reluctant to do it, if its only a small amount to be saved. But one can always ask.
    Talk about asking. I had sent the Hommel seller an email in "German" courtesy of Google Translate, asking for the shipping cost to Perth. No response. I mentioned this to Pete and sent him a copy of my original question. He himself reckoning I had asked the seller some ribald question. Pete did point out that most younger Germans speak English but to be polite I asked my work colleague, Frau Goericke, to draft a more suitable query. Received a response in English 3 minutes later.

    As a consequence I asked Navina Goericke to write me an apologetic introduction to accompany any further Ebay.de queries, rather than leaping bullishingly in with English.

    If anyone feels like using this as an opening paragraph, please feel free.....

    Hallo ....,


    Bitte entschuldigen Sie das ich kein deutsch spreche und Ihnen daher die folgende Email auf englisch schreiben werden.
    Danke fuer Ihr Verstaendniss.



    BT

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