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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Sydney
    Posts
    15

    Default New to milling machines and seeking advice

    Hi all, I'm new to milling machines and new to this forum, so please bear with me.

    I've been looking at milling machines to use for some DIY electronics casework. I'm really, really new to milling machines; the case-work I have done has been by hand with a drill, stepped bits, hacksaw, nibbler, files, etc. and this would be a bit of a learning curve. I did take metalwork while I was at school (7 years ago) and worked with a lathe and other tools, but never used a mill.

    The main tasks I want to do are making primarily circular holes and also square holes (for panel mounting IEC sockets, LCD display, etc.). I would also like to finish off edges, e.g. at the moment I have some 1 and 2 RU 4mm aluminium front plates that have rack mounting holes extending past the end of the case that I would like to cut off then finish the edge square and round off the corners. That's the general use a machine would get from me and it would only be occasional use. Perhaps some other odd jobs that can be done on a milling machine too.

    Possible problem:
    I don't have a garage, shed or workshop that I could put such a machine. It can't live anywhere inside the house and the only place I can think of is under the carport. It would be exposed there but would be covered. Would this be a major problem and affect the health of the machine or are there situations where this kind of setup can work?

    Actual questions:
    I've been looking at the TM16V and the TM20V from titanmachinery.com.au but am unsure of how big a machine I would need (and would be open to other suggestions).
    I'd mostly be milling 480mm wide sheets of aluminium at 4-10mm thick and steel at 1-2mm thick.
    Would the table size have to be larger than the pieces I'm working on, particularly working with long panels? I'm not sure if there are particular mounting strategies working with panels, if I could use two vises to hold a long thin panel that's longer than the table or something.
    And finally, would I have problems and put a lot of stress on either of the machines I'm looking at plunging into aluminium and steel panels and milling slots and square holes? I don't know how much material either of these machines could take out at once and if I'd have to mill out a slot fractions of a mm at a time or if I could mill a slot through 4mm in one pass.

    Hopefully I'm not asking too much and someone can help point me in the right direction, helping choose a machine or decide that a milling machine really isn't an option for me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southern Highlands NSW
    Posts
    1,894

    Default

    A mill could be handy in any metal workshop, but for the sheet metal you'll be working with, other tools might be more effective. There are some angle guillotines, useful for chopping corners out of sheets so they can be folded into box shapes. Also, punch machines for electronics work can do a variety of hole sizes, and special shapes like for multipin D- plugs etc are quick to use.
    A mill could do much as you describe, but I think it would be much slower and troublesome.
    For a guide on what to look for, maybe there's a text book describing metal work for electronics technicians.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    15

    Default

    I guess the speed at which I could work may be a problem if I can't mill a lot of metal on each pass. That really depends on what different machines can handle; if they can cut a slot in 4mm aluminium in one, two or many more passes. Being able to cut slots in one or two passes is of course the most appealing, but I really don't know what any of these machines are capable of...

    Thanks for the other tool suggestions; I had also been thinking of using a drill press and scroll saw, but thought that that wouldn't end up looking very neat.

    The appeal of a milling machine really lies in how I'd be able to get nice straight and clean cuts which would be necessary when cutting a front panel that would be on show (I usually build audio gear; headphone / speaker amps, DACs, etc.).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    15

    Default

    But before I get too carried away, I need to answer this question:
    Can I keep a milling (or other large) machine outside, under a carport?
    It would be in a sheltered area, against a house wall, but technically outdoors nonetheless.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lower Lakes SA
    Age
    58
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    2,607

    Default

    It's not ideal but I think it would be ok if you were willing to baby it. Pay extra (more frequent) attention to cleanliness, lubrication and rust-proofing any exposed surfaces. Problems might occur if it gets left unused for a period. The climate where you live will be a factor too. Sydney's pretty humid I believe. Are you close to the coast? Arguably, an unlined shed is not much better than a sheltered carport. But there's security to think of as well. Personally I think I'd be moving somewhere with a shed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    Default

    I'm not near the coast, so salty air is no problem. Humidity and dampness after rain would be the biggest problems. It would be sitting unused for weeks at a time though...

    When I do move (which should be sometime in the next year or two), a shed or garage to set up shop in will be a number one priority

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Heidelberg, Victoria
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    79
    Posts
    2,074

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    E42,

    You might even consider having your parts laser cut or water jet cut, especially if you have several chassis to make up.

    From memory the set-up charge for programming etc is around $70, then approx $4.50 per metre for the actual cutting, plus material.

    If you drew the part up yourself, then produced a dxf file and supplied the material, the expense would be much lower.

    Just a thought,

    Ken

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lower Lakes SA
    Age
    58
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    2,607

    Default

    Elliot42, there's plenty of more experienced millers here than me, but they've gone shy, so here's a couple of parting thoughts before I hit the sack.

    You do realise you won't get square corners? You will at the bottom of the cut, but not the side. So if you need square corners in your panels you will still be hand finishing. Not to mention deburring.

    4mm is nothing, especially in ally. The problem would be supporting it securely enough. You may need your sheet(s) clamped between bits of wood or something. Fiddly.

    Are you going to be doing numbers of the same design or one offs?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Thanks for the input so far.

    It'd be all one-offs, different projects here and there. It would probably get a bunch of use as a drill press as well. And I realise the corners would be rounded, shouldn't be much of a problem.

    I have also looked at getting panels laser cut, both locally and from places like Front Panel Express. Locally seemed a bit expensive per panel, with set-up for each panel because they're one-offs; was working out at about $100 per panel (I wanted 6 done, or at least 3 front panels). FPE was about $70 per panel. Getting a mill and all the tooling would cost a lot more (likely $2-3000 for something like the TM20V), but machining myself would be more fun and hopefully less stressful than drawing up CAD files, explaining exactly what I want, etc.

    I'd also get a mill / drill press out of it to use when I want

    Now just to be clear: slot cutting in one (or few) pass through 4mm AL would be no problem for even a TM16V / Sieg X2 size mill?
    A bigger table would be good, but I wouldn't want to go overboard and get something way over-specced for what I'd use it for.

  10. #10
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    A mill drill would be handy to have around and can always be sold for good coin if needed latter. A cover could be made up for it to keep the weather off it and if you go for something like a HM32 nobody will be walking off with it without a ute or trailer.

    You may find the throat limiting on the smaller machines for 480mm wide panels.
    I would recommend a HM 32 or 46 size machine, you can get them from different places on special for around $1500 and have the power for more serious drilling and milling without over heating and have the advantage of having larger tables.
    If you do go this way let us know and we can give you the list of different suppliers that stock these machines.
    As for machining it a piece of mdf underneath would do for thiner panel, that way the panel can be clamped down without any vises.

    Dave

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lower Lakes SA
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    58
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    2,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elliot42 View Post

    Now just to be clear: slot cutting in one (or few) pass through 4mm AL would be no problem for even a TM16V / Sieg X2 size mill?
    A bigger table would be good, but I wouldn't want to go overboard and get something way over-specced for what I'd use it for.
    There are some Sieg owners who might definitively answer that.

    You never hear "It's too big, I wish I had a smaller one!" But it's very common to hear "I thought it would be big enough but it's not." I was talking to a Sieg owner recently who said just that. He was into RC model boats and thought the Sieg was the right size. It was - until he wanted to put a rotary table on it. Not enough height. Having said that, the Siegs seem to be sought-after so you'd have no trouble moving it on if you decided to upgrade.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    74
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    5,080

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    Hi Elliot42,

    I guess you're making one off rack mount audio gear? I do a bit of rack-mount comms, and generally buy standard racks from Jaycar and so the only machining involved is the front panel cutouts. Maybe a few custom brackets for pcb mounting etc...

    The big advantage of a mill for this type of work is accuracy and nice clean cuts. The limitations are cutter radius, setup time, and you probably will want some other machinery for stock preparation... bandsaw, guillotine or similar..

    If you have a quantity, then getting someone local to laser cut it is the way to go...

    One option that **may** be worth considering is a fly press with a few dies, you can get lucky if you keep an eye out on ebay they sometimes go for scrap value. There are standard dies for things like DB25's and such.. think of it a a big 3 ton nibbler..

    A wouldn't put a mill drill out in the open, and then have to move it anyway, it would make more sense to wait until you have a workshop to keep it in.

    Hope that helps.

    Regards
    Ray

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    15

    Default

    I'm not rack-mounting the things I build, but I do use cases from Jaycar and Altronics. My current project is using the rack-mount cases from Altronics and one of the things I want to do is remove the ends of the front panel that have the holes for rack mounting. I'm building a DAC / pre-amp combo and also built a headphone amp and speaker amp last year to go with it.

    What kind of limitations with cutter radius do you mean?

    I hate to admit it, but waiting until I have a workshop of some sort to put a mill probably is the right thing to do. I'll keep thinking about it though.

  14. #14
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    Could you enclose in a portion of the carport, yellow tongue flooring, chip board or MDF would work as walls and floor and can be taken down easy latter. Sometimes you can pick up packing sheets from suppliers for nothing or close to it.

    Dave

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Mmm... Ideas, ideas. I'll think about what's possible.

    Thanks for all the input you've all given already, it's really helpful.

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