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  1. #1546
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    733

    Default Been learning on mill - tangential holder

    Have been learning what my mill can do.

    Made this tangential tool holder. Its scruffy and ugly - But - Blimey ! It works. Am well chuffed.

    Took aaaaaages - made mistakes - did things twice over - figured out how to do it better next time.

    So far T nuts, table clamps, tangential tool holder.

    Next Toolmakers clamps, jacks, sharpening jigs and in a few years time in collaboration with lathe a dividing head & a rotary table.

    Did some googling whilst making it - some nice lateral thinking on tangential holders on this thread


    http://www.modelenginemaker.com/inde...ic,712.45.html

    Had to actually have a go before I could properly understand what I'd been reading on the net.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #1547
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,541

    Default

    And the silly thing is in a couple of years you are just as likely to look at it and tell yourself that it is a bit rough and needs to be redone...
    This learning thing never stops.

    Michael

  3. #1548
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    229

    Default Dawn drill vise repair

    I bought a well abused dawn vise recently as a machining and brazing project. I thought it deserved to be rescued. It had already been roughly weld repaired at some stage, but I guess the same person kept on abusing it. I milled out the worst of the damage and made inserts to fit, which were then brazed in place. I know it still looks a bit rough however it will now work well for its intended purpose. (And I learnt a bit about machining and brazing along the way)
    Cheers
    Peter
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  4. #1549
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petip View Post
    I bought a well abused dawn vise recently as a machining and brazing project. I thought it deserved to be rescued. It had already been roughly weld repaired at some stage, but I guess the same person kept on abusing it. I milled out the worst of the damage and made inserts to fit, which were then brazed in place. I know it still looks a bit rough however it will now work well for its intended purpose. (And I learnt a bit about machining and brazing along the way)
    Cheers
    Peter
    That was bloody disgraceful as to the abuse it had..okay a mistake here n there one can understand, but who ever was using that obviously just does not respect anything!!

  5. #1550
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steamingbill View Post
    Have been learning what my mill can do.

    Made this tangential tool holder. Its scruffy and ugly - But - Blimey ! It works. Am well chuffed.

    Took aaaaaages - made mistakes - did things twice over - figured out how to do it better next time.

    So far T nuts, table clamps, tangential tool holder.

    Next Toolmakers clamps, jacks, sharpening jigs and in a few years time in collaboration with lathe a dividing head & a rotary table.

    Did some googling whilst making it - some nice lateral thinking on tangential holders on this thread


    http://www.modelenginemaker.com/inde...ic,712.45.html

    Had to actually have a go before I could properly understand what I'd been reading on the net.
    Did you leave the tool slot blind for a reason. The one I have (Eccentric Eng) is open which allows the tool steel to hang below, so it can be any length, almost. It is also a safety measure. If you crash the tool, the HSS can slide down and reduce the impact.

    I thought about making one but gave up and bought one. Good work.

    Dean

  6. #1551
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steamingbill View Post
    Its scruffy and ugly -
    Hey thats almost as ugly as mine! (So I can hardly say great work without looking like I'm patting myself on the back)
    One of these days I'll make a pretty one...... really I will. Once I finish the 1000 other projects in front of it.

    If you have clearance issues with the cap screws, what I did was turn the angled part of a c/sink screw off. I think the head and the washer total 3mm, though your tapped holes look further from the tool than mine so it might not work for you.

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...1&d=1306640815

    Peter,

    Great work on the vice. any pictures on how you went about brazing the replacement parts in?

    Stuart

  7. #1552
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petip View Post
    I bought a well abused dawn vise recently as a machining and brazing project. I thought it deserved to be rescued. It had already been roughly weld repaired at some stage, but I guess the same person kept on abusing it. I milled out the worst of the damage and made inserts to fit, which were then brazed in place. I know it still looks a bit rough however it will now work well for its intended purpose. (And I learnt a bit about machining and brazing along the way)
    Cheers
    Peter
    A good save on your Dawn vice. It did deserve rescue and redemption. There really are some people who should not be permitted to enter a workshop let alone use tools. The former owner seems to be one of them.The vice now looks quite tidy and is well able to be used - no problem.

    If you have mill may I suggest machining a step across the top of each jaw.
    If you drill a lot of small flat bar as I do you may it find very handy to hold the fiddly bits and keep them from being pushed out of parallel with the base. I have attached a pic

    dawn 125 vice.JPG

    of my 125mm dawn to illustrate.

    The only negative is that as the sizes become small across the flat widths is that one has to be careful not to forget the step on the jaws may catch the drill as it passes through the thickness of the bar.

    A big well done to you.

  8. #1553
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Heidelberg, Victoria
    Age
    79
    Posts
    2,074

    Default On the subject of vices

    Over the last couple of years, I've managed to acquire a 3" and 4" Dawn engineer's vice.

    Both have been crudely repainted, both missing the Dawn logo.

    Anyone have a good quality photo of the logo or better, some artwork so I can make a couple of "Water slide" stickers.

    Ken

  9. #1554
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neksmerj View Post
    Over the last couple of years, I've managed to acquire a 3" and 4" Dawn engineer's vice.

    Both have been crudely repainted, both missing the Dawn logo.

    Anyone have a good quality photo of the logo or better, some artwork so I can make a couple of "Water slide" stickers.

    Ken
    Hey Ken,

    If you have a camera that works how about a show and tell on the making of a water slide transfer?

    BT

  10. #1555
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lake Macquarie
    Age
    86
    Posts
    90

    Default Tangential Toolholders

    Quote Originally Posted by steamingbill View Post
    Have been learning what my mill can do.

    Made this tangential tool holder. Its scruffy and ugly - But - Blimey ! It works. Am well chuffed.

    Took aaaaaages - made mistakes - did things twice over - figured out how to do it better next time.

    So far T nuts, table clamps, tangential tool holder.

    Next Toolmakers clamps, jacks, sharpening jigs and in a few years time in collaboration with lathe a dividing head & a rotary table.

    Did some googling whilst making it - some nice lateral thinking on tangential holders on this thread


    http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,712.45.html




    Had to actually have a go before I could properly understand what I'd been reading on the net.
    Well done Bill.

    The original Carbide Tangential Tools.Late 1950's.
    The Clamping Band was the key to the design, giving a slimmer tool profile with a 7 degree Front to Back and Side clearances.
    They were also considered to be the fore- runners of indexable insert tools with the constant profile and adjustable tool height.
    We need someone with knowledge of the 'Lost Wax Process' to manufacture the Clamping Bands
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #1556
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neksmerj View Post
    Over the last couple of years, I've managed to acquire a 3" and 4" Dawn engineer's vice.

    Both have been crudely repainted, both missing the Dawn logo.

    Anyone have a good quality photo of the logo or better, some artwork so I can make a couple of "Water slide" stickers.

    Ken
    Which one Ken? Theres also another one I took a photo of in the eng tool store but it has a chrome label infill and was a carp photo.

    Grahame
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  12. #1557
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Heidelberg, Victoria
    Age
    79
    Posts
    2,074

    Default Dawn logo

    Hi Gra,

    I don't think any of those logos match a very faint logo that's on my 3" vice.

    As best I can tell, the word "Dawn" is black with what looks like a sunrise over the top similar to the Army sunrise badge on hats.

    I might be well off.

    BT, I have never actually made a water slide sticker but believe it's very simple.

    1. Purchase water slide paper from say eBay or stationers.
    2. Prepare artwork
    3. Print artwork onto water slide paper with an ink jet printer
    4. Allow to dry
    5. Spray a coat of lacquer over the sticker
    6. Cut out sticker
    7. Soak sticker in water
    8. Apply sticker on item, and slide away the backing paper, smooth out and Bob's your uncle.
    9. Pour yourself another glass of medicine and relax

    Ken

  13. #1558
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    733

    Default Blind slot - to thread or not to thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    Did you leave the tool slot blind for a reason.
    Dean
    Dean,

    I was wondering about drilling through the base of the blind slot and threading it, then inserting a bolt and then using that to help adjust tool height and to prevent the tool getting pushed lower on heavy cuts.

    I can see your point about opening it as a safety valve in case of a crash.

    Will ponder/dither/procrastinate for a few days before deciding how to finish it off.

    Bill
    Last edited by steamingbill; 27th Aug 2015 at 10:29 PM. Reason: typos

  14. #1559
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    733

    Default carbide tangential history

    Quote Originally Posted by Col2310 View Post

    The original Carbide Tangential Tools.Late 1950's.
    The Clamping Band was the key to the design, giving a slimmer tool profile with a 7 degree Front to Back and Side clearances.
    They were also considered to be the fore- runners of indexable insert tools with the constant profile and adjustable tool height.
    We need someone with knowledge of the 'Lost Wax Process' to manufacture the Clamping Bands
    Thats interesting, I never realised that the tangential idea gave rise to the carbide inserts idea. I can see the relationship now you point it out.

    I've seen the tangential idea briefly mentioned by L.H. Sparey and L.C. Mason and "Duplex" in fairly old books & magazines. One thread that I saw had Maudsley using the idea in the late 1800s and it being well documented in various books between 1880 and 1900.

    Bill

  15. #1560
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neksmerj View Post
    Both have been crudely repainted, both missing the Dawn logo.

    Anyone have a good quality photo of the logo or better, some artwork so I can make a couple of "Water slide" stickers.
    Best I can find is -
    dawn.jpg

    Michael

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