Thread: VSD Remote Control Panel Questions

Hi Eskimo,

I like your idea of increasing the motor to 3kw, that should further minimize gear (belt) changes. Although, running at the lower speeds on the HM52 might still require a gear/belt change to get enough torque.

I got a Teco FM50 1.5kw 240v drive, (single phase in, 3 phase out) which has the speed control pot and fwd/rev switch on the front panel, but I'm also controlling the spindle speed remotely with a +-10v signal from the CNC.

Looking at the pictures of the various drives, I suspect there is a bit of badge engineering going on..

Regards
Ray

Ray
the 3kw 2 pole puts out around 9.8 Nm while the 1.5kw 4 pole puts out 10 .....so says the manufacturers product data

And I am hoping this will match the 1.5kw lower speeds using a vector drive....or have I had too much too drink?...

I could always change the drive pulley to a smaller one if need be, to keep maximum speed at the spindle to say 2400 rpm at 60hz (most good brand motors although rated at 50hz will easily accept 60hz with out damage) thereby giving me some extra torque at the lower end as well...but then I'd need to scale the drive so the rpm is correct...one way or another i'm going to have a rpm indication somehow even if its means sticking on a tacho

Incidently, these motors have a B5 mounting flange and all I have had/and to do is make a new plate for the motor to sit on (almost finished), remove the lip on the motor flange (done), extend the motor shaft a little (done),source and fit a taperlock motor pulley (on order as is belt) and then wire it all up and test

I also have on hand a small 3phase backward curve centrifugal blower to sit atop the motor to aid in heat dissipation at the lower speeds...if need be...and it probably will

[QUOTE=markjaffa;1136258]Godzilla98 - VSDs are PowTran - I imported them fom the manufacturer in China after seeing their products at an Industrial Automation Trade Show in Shanghai. Great features, good English manual, good price - plus they are one of the top 5 manufacturers of VSDs in China, which makes them pretty big! I have set the stop to be a dead stop after reading through the manual - initial setting was a 10 second power down! Not what you want for a lathe.

Hi Marjaffa
I was interested in some more info on the PowTran VSDs you bought from China - do you have a contact with manufacturer or some info you can PM me on these including indicative price and freight etc.

If anyone else has info on local or foreign sourced VSDs I would be interested. I need single phase in 3 phase out.

Thanks

Bill

If anyone else has info on local or foreign sourced VSDs I would be interested. I need single phase in 3 phase out.

Thanks

Bill

Hi Bill,

The one I got is the TECO FM50, already mentioned earlier in this thread. The one I'm setting up is 1.5kw (2hp) but they go up to 3hp... above that kw rating you need 415 3ph.



It has the pot for speed control on the front panel, and fwd/rev switch, and on/off switch.

You can get more details here.
TECO-Westinghouse Motor Company: Products - FM50 Micro AC Drive

Since it's 240V 3 phase out, make sure your 3phase motor can be wired for 240v, for mine it's a teco motor, so it's wound to run on 240v 3 phase (when wired in delta configuration)... above 5.5kw they look to be wound for 415v delta as standard... so check the motor specs carefully..



Regards
Ray

PM sent

Thanks Ray
I am across the delta vs star wiring matter as I already run a crude 3 phase 240V rotary converter. Actually I have found that some 3 phase 415volt motors run well enough for home handyman use on 3 phase 240 even on Y strapping. Found this out due to some machines having 2 speed switch where one is in effect Y and the other is delta.
Bill

Originally Posted by eskimo

Ray
the 3kw 2 pole puts out around 9.8 Nm while the 1.5kw 4 pole puts out 10 .....so says the manufacturers product data

And I am hoping this will match the 1.5kw lower speeds using a vector drive....or have I had too much too drink?...

I could always change the drive pulley to a smaller one if need be, to keep maximum speed at the spindle to say 2400 rpm at 60hz (most good brand motors although rated at 50hz will easily accept 60hz with out damage) thereby giving me some extra torque at the lower end as well...but then I'd need to scale the drive so the rpm is correct...one way or another i'm going to have a rpm indication somehow even if its means sticking on a tacho

Incidently, these motors have a B5 mounting flange and all I have had/and to do is make a new plate for the motor to sit on (almost finished), remove the lip on the motor flange (done), extend the motor shaft a little (done),source and fit a taperlock motor pulley (on order as is belt) and then wire it all up and test

I also have on hand a small 3phase backward curve centrifugal blower to sit atop the motor to aid in heat dissipation at the lower speeds...if need be...and it probably will

Hi Eskimo,

The extra torque you have ( you have double the standard motor already, with that motor) should allow you to run over a pretty wide speed range without changing belts. Even then when it gets to the the lower speeds, like 220 rpm or so, you could always just take lighter cuts.

The belt change option is always there if you really need the extra torque.

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Eskimo,

The extra torque you have ( you have double the standard motor already, with that motor) should allow you to run over a pretty wide speed range without changing belts. Even then when it gets to the the lower speeds, like 220 rpm or so, you could always just take lighter cuts.

The belt change option is always there if you really need the extra torque.

I think you will find I will only have the same torque.....the formula is
T = hp x 5252 / rpm or T = kw x 967 / rpm

yes lighter cuts will assist and as for belt change....
I was going to fit a single groove 160 dia drive pulley so that I have large surface contact area for the vee belt. Yesterday I decided to get the ext shaft modified so that I can fit a 2 groove pulley which will allow me to use the larger and 2nd largest dia grooves on the spindle pulley

the 3 stepped ally pulleys dont go up to 160dia ...I'd have to get one machined...my lathe is still sitting in the box as you know who doesnt know I have it...yet

Originally Posted by eskimo

I think you will find I will only have the same torque.....the formula is
T = hp x 5252 / rpm or T = kw x 967 / rpm

yes lighter cuts will assist and as for belt change....
I was going to fit a single groove 160 dia drive pulley so that I have large surface contact area for the vee belt. Yesterday I decided to get the ext shaft modified so that I can fit a 2 groove pulley which will allow me to use the larger and 2nd largest dia grooves on the spindle pulley

the 3 stepped ally pulleys dont go up to 160dia ...I'd have to get one machined...my lathe is still sitting in the box as you know who doesnt know I have it...yet

Hi Eskimo,

I reasoned as follows...
2 pole 3kw should be 2800 rpm, and the 4 pole 1.5kw 1400 rpm. In order to run the 4 pole motor at 2800, you need to gear it up x2, so the torque drops to 5 nm, with your 2 pole 3kw motor you have 10nm at that speed.

What actually happens at the lower speeds is going to depend on how well the drive torque control/ (torque boost) software works, leaving aside belt slippage etc.

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by eskimo

...my lathe is still sitting in the box as you know who doesnt know I have it...yet

Outch.... how do you hide a lathe? Big box marked as spare machine parts?

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Outch.... how do you hide a lathe? Big box marked as spare machine parts?

how do I hide a lathe...same way I hide all my guns...never let her see em and never ever tell her I bought another one

(she bought the mill for my birthday...with my money but)

but its almost as you say ....it sits a big box and she thinks I have airconditioning bits n pieces in it....and it sits under the 2 x 12volt fridges with a stack of flexible ducting ontop of that....one day she is find out tho...and I'll be in big trouble...any know a good lawyer hahahaha

Its not a big lathe only 900 mm bed been there for 4 years...oooops just checked..its 6 yrs....hell time flies.....its out of date now so i must need a new one eh?...if I wait till my next birthday maybe I can convince her to buy me a lathe...just bigger and better than the one I am hiding

eskimos post got me looking closely at my Powtran 7660 inverter, and I found that the control panel clips out easily!

It has a pot on it for adjusting the speed, 8 other buttons, 6 LED indicator lights, and the screen.

Got in contact with Powtran today and they said I can install up to a 3m ten conductor ribbon cable with IDC plugs to remote mount the panel. If I used screened cable it can be extended up to 100m!

Plugs are $4 each and cable would cost about $12 from Farnell. Plus a small sealed enclosure for about $10 and you have a remote panel!

I have to do some more thinking before I commit to this course though.

Originally Posted by markjaffa

eskimos post got me looking closely at my Powtran 7660 inverter, and I found that the control panel clips out easily!

It has a pot on it for adjusting the speed, 8 other buttons, 6 LED indicator lights, and the screen.

Got in contact with Powtran today and they said I can install up to a 3m ten conductor ribbon cable with IDC plugs to remote mount the panel. If I used screened cable it can be extended up to 100m!

Plugs are $4 each and cable would cost about $12 from Farnell. Plus a small sealed enclosure for about $10 and you have a remote panel!

I have to do some more thinking before I commit to this course though.

my stuff so that I can mount the main box away from the controller and display is on its way....that 0-100% belimo went back into the redundant parts shelve as i am getting another panel with the speed adjustment...this will look even better

and as you say the panel does clip out easily....gunna take some thinking on how to mount it into another facia (front panel of control box)

Mark
remote vsd display stuff arrived
the display panel came with a recessed fixing panel designed to clip into a front panel of say an alloy or plastic electrical enclosure...so all one needs to do it cut a square hole and push it in till it locks in place. ie....No other fixings required.