Thread: Buying flat bar in grades other then black mild steel

Is there any place in Australia where you can buy flat bar say like 10mmX40mm in a grade other then plain black mild steel???

I would like to make some mill clamp tooling and need some stuff I can harden..

You can buy bright flat 1020 which can be case hardened.
Why do you particularly need to harden your clamps.

Hi RC,
I am pretty sure Australian Special Metals will have or can get you what you seek.
Is it something like 4130 or or 4140?
These guys have a website so you can get in there and a bit of a look.

http://www.asmpl.com.au/Australian%2...20Brochure.pdf

There is a branch in Mackay.

I dealt with them a lot while quoting and found them very helpful.
Cheers
Grahame

So they last a bit longer then MS, plus black MS bar is crap to machine, it is all gummy..

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Hi RC,
I am pretty sure Australian Special Metals will have or can get you what you seek.
Is it something like 4130 or or 4140?

I think 1045 might be good enough... round bar is easy to buy locally, but try to get anything in a flat or square and it is impossible..

Originally Posted by .RC.

Is there any place in Australia where you can buy flat bar say like 10mmX40mm in a grade other then plain black mild steel???

I would like to make some mill clamp tooling and need some stuff I can harden..

Have you had a look for what is commonly called GAUGE PLATE or GROUND FLAT STOCK?

It's freely available, lots of different manufactures stock their own make of this stuff.

Try this link, make sure you read ALL the blurb.
Bohler-Uddeholm Australia - Miscellaneous - Ground Flat Stock

John

I contacted the business in Mackay and the availability of any flat product in any grade other then 1020 is virtually non existent.. They recommended me to use some Bisalloy..I have some 12mm bisalloy here so might try it..

What sort of clamps do you make/use that wear out.

Originally Posted by .RC.

I think 1045 might be good enough... round bar is easy to buy locally, but try to get anything in a flat or square and it is impossible..

NO, you got that wrong, 10-45 is available in square bar, you just got to look in the right places.

Go to this site and click on the BLUE words " stocked sizes " and all will be revealed.

1045 Bright Carbon Steel Bar - Interlloy

Read it carefully, it's there.

John

Originally Posted by pipeclay

What sort of clamps do you make/use that wear out.

There are various clamp types I want to try to make...I also want something that is hardenable so I can harden the working parts...Also another type I need it to be strong so it does not bend...

Originally Posted by j.bain87

NO, you got that wrong, 10-45 is available in square bar, you just got to look in the right places.

Go to this site and click on the BLUE words " stocked sizes " and all will be revealed.

1045 Bright Carbon Steel Bar - Interlloy

Read it carefully, it's there.

John

I had a look and it does not say what grade the square stuff comes in...I am guessing it is just 1020 as I was told flat/square bar is easily obtainable in that grade..

Well I havent posted for a long time but try this place I get steel from them in adelaide

here is the townsville link

Bohler-Uddeholm Australia - Queensland

or brisbane

Bohler-Uddeholm Australia - Queensland

cheers
Gene

Bohler Uddeholm Steel Merchants are in QLD and they have quality German steels.
For what you want a steel like Bohler K245 would be good without the need to harden it. It turns, mills , drills and taps well .
If you want to harden and temper yourself then an 01 grade steel would be good as it is oil hardening , Bohler Uddenholm " Arnie " is an oil hardening tool steel .
so is Bohler K460 and ASSAB DF2 also Thyssen 2510 , Sanderson "Newhall"
AISI 01 . Some of these grades may be discontinued.
Basicly ask for an 01 grade steel.

Heat treating info.
When a steel is fairly easy to machine, can be heat treated with a torch, tempered in the oven, and yields a very hard, fine grained end product, it's no wonder it continues to remain a popular choice for many applications. The AISI O1 steel group is an oil hardening, non-deforming tool steel that can be hardened at fairly low temperatures with minimum volume change. It typically has deep hardening qualities with a fine grained structure.
Machining: Keep in mind that traditional machining, such as sawing, drilling, milling, and filing, need to be done before heat treating. After heat treating the steel is ready for grinding and polishing. (We now have solid carbide and diamond coated tooling that can be used on the heat treated steel, but this is usually only done in emergency or special situations.)
Heat Treatment Data: While the different brands of O1 steel will vary slightly in composition, they will all conform to AISI standards and therefore will all react to heat treatment with similar results. The temperatures given here are the ranges of temperatures that were acquired from two O1 steel makers and one O1 steel supplier.
SAFETY: Please remember that we're talking about using an open flame and heating metal to a temperature that will damage most things if it makes accidental contact. The quenching oil can splatter or spill and it's flammable. Your work area should be prepared beforehand for the hazards, or this can be done outside. Safety glasses, protective clothing, fire extinguisher, good ventilation, and great care is recommended.
Hardening: Pieces with sections (thicknesses) 1/4 inch or smaller should be heated to 1450 to 1500 degrees F. If you use a torch, be sure to heat the piece (or area to be hardened) evenly. I found that it will glow a cherry-red color when ready to quench. Experience will help you recognize when the temperature is correct, but some people use a permanent magnet to determine when the right temperature has been reached. The hot metal will not be magnetic at the correct temperature. Be sure it's heated all the way through. Over-heating can make the steel brittle. Heat treating done properly will also give the nice, fine grain. (Thicker pieces should be pre-heated to 1200 degrees F. Raise the temperature to 1450 to 1500 degrees F and hold that temperaure for half an hour per inch of cross-section.) The easiest way to hang on to pieces while heating and quenching is to use a heavy wire through any hole. The wire should be heavy enough not to melt through during heating. I've used old (heavy) coat hanger wire with good success. This makes retrieval from the oil quench quick and easy instead of slow and messy. Trying to hold a piece by pliers or tongs can be a real adventure and potentially dangerous (if you drop the piece, etc.). If the piece doesn't have a hole, sometimes you can put a hole somewhere where it won't hurt anything, such as the tang of a knife blade, so that you can use a wire.
Quenching: The oil quenching should be done as soon as you're satisfied that you've reached the correct hardening temperature. (except for thick pieces as mentioned above that need longer hardening times - and possibly an interrupted quenching process - using oil and air) Any light-weight oil will work - such as motor oil. Recommended oil temperature is 120 to 150 degrees F. The temperature of the steel must be quenched to 150 degrees F or lower. I have succcessfully used room-temperature oil, but of course the closer you follow recommended procedures, the better your chances of attaining the best results. Safety tip: Make sure your oil container is metal so that there's no chance it will melt. You also need good ventilation - it will smoke! The metal is hot enough to flame, but that's OK and normal. If it still flames when you try to bring it out of the oil quench, then it's still too hot.
Tempering: Any piece that's going to be tempered should be tempered as soon as its quenching is done (and the excess oil is wiped off). The easiest way to temper is by using an oven. Our first manufacturer's information tells us that O1 hardened in the manner we just described should typically be 63 to 65 Rc as hardened. They claim that tempering 2 hours at 350/450 degrees F should result in a hardness of 60 to 64 Rc. Another manufacturer provides the following three tempering schemes: 1.) 300/350 degrees F for 1 hour for 62/64 Rc - 2.) 400/450 degrees F for 1 hour for 58/60 Rc - and 3.)800/850 degrees F for 1 hour for 48/52 Rc hardness.
After the final cooling, you need to clean off any oil, scale, or dirt. A wire brush or wheel, sand blaster, or whatever's convenient for you will prepare the piece so that it doesn't clog up your grinding wheel. Hardened pieces are then ready for grinding, polishing, and finishing. They are now too hard to work on with regular tool steel tools, such as: saws, drills, files, etc. (unless the tooling is solid carbide or diamond coated - and held down firmly).
Disclaimer: There are so many variables, that your results may very well vary from what we're writing here. As I said before, the more experience you get, the more you can modify things to get exactly what you're after. This is just a rough outline to try and help beginners get started. Professional heat treating facilities get the best and most consistant results because they have the correct equipment - ovens, with accurate temperature control, timers, and lots of experience. They start out by pre-heating correctly and can follow the manufacturer's instructions accurately to the well-timed conclusion.
Having said that, myself and many, many others have used O1 in our local tool & die shops - with torches, dirty room-temperature oil quenches, and looking for the right cherry-red color to great success for many years. Talking with my custom knife making friends, I know that many of them feel that they are pursuing an art of which heat treating is just one of the many components of the overall art. To whoever reads this guide, I wish you the best luck with your projects. (Please - think of safety first and always.)