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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Question AL336 or AL960B - which one?

    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post - so be gentle!

    As you can see - I am buying my first lathe and have a choice between a new AL336 for $3795 and a second hand AL960B for $3700, with $200 of tools. It is only 18 months old and has only seen light use.

    WHICH WAY TO GO?????

    1. My understanding is that a heavier lathe suffers from less vibration, rsulting in a better finish, putting the 336 in front by 135kg. The 960B is still a hefty 455kg - it would be installed on a self-levelling concrete floor and then trued in place. 336 or 960B?

    2. 960B is described as Taiwan quality - how MUCH better is the quality over the 336? Anyone have TIR figures for these lathes? 336 or 960B?

    3. 336 has a foot brake - useful for thread cutting upto a shoulder according to some threads I have read. Not completely necessary according to some - given the thread dial on both lathes. 336 or 960B?

    4. 336 has a 12 month warranty, 960B is out by 4-6 months. It runs great - but you never know what around the corner. 336 or 960B?

    The 336 comes with a coolant setup and a light. Not a big problem for me that the 960B doesnt - I am a sparky and have Low Voltage lights laying around that can be adapted to fit a housing and then mount on an arm. For coolant - I have some Low Voltage pumps that have suitable internals to pump oils, etc.

    I also plan to remove the single phase motor and replace with a three phase and VFD setup to get better control over speeds.

    So - for pretty much the same money - 336 or 960B?

    Look forward to your replies,

    Mark

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Charlestown NSW
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    Mark
    I just had a quick look at the H&F site. Theres not much difference in size. If it was me I'd be having a good look at the 2nd hand one. For the reason you stated about it being heavier, its a little bit larger capacity (not much but could be helpful on some jobs) I wouldn't be too concerned about no warranty, just have a good look at it, listen to it run etc. Ask if you can try it out or at least get the owner to give a demo with a decent cut on it. See if you can take the top of the headstock gearbox to have a look inside.
    As fas a a foot brake goes I wouldn't let having one or not influence my decision. I finished my appprenticeship as a Fitter & Machinist in early 1979 and then spent the next 20 years or so on the tools. Mainly as a fitter but still plenty of machine work. I've cut lots of threads on different machines and have never used a machine with a foot brake. Some say they are great for threading and that might be so with a small machine. On a big machine, even with a brake (Ive used some with hand operated brakes) the chuck doesn't stop immediately anyway. You adapt how you work to the machine you are using.
    Hope this helps

    regards
    bollie7

  3. #3
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    As above but would suggest to sit down and have a good think about what you will be machining as there are a few differences between them that may determine which you purchase.
    Forgetting your 3phase vfd,Speeds,Thread Range,Spindle Bore,FeedRates,Swing and Length of travel of the Cross Slide and Compond.

  4. #4
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markjaffa View Post
    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post - so be gentle!

    As you can see - I am buying my first lathe and have a choice between a new AL336 for $3795 and a second hand AL960B for $3700, with $200 of tools. It is only 18 months old and has only seen light use.
    I'm dead jealous you are even in a position to be able to choose.

    I'd go the used one if it is good nick.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    not much difference in size of those lathes but i would go for the AL-960, machines from Taiwan are much better quality and this machine would be great. not sure what your getting at with the brake helping with thread cutting you disengage the feed not stop the machine. i would go to H&F and have a try of both machines, looking at quality of work, how easy the gears change and the feeds engaged. dont think you will be able to see them under power but it doesnt hurt to have a play with the leavers . i wouldnt worry about changing to the motor just run it and mayby latter change it.
    happy turning

    Patrick

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by new_guy90 View Post
    not much difference in size of those lathes but i would go for the AL-960, machines from Taiwan are much better quality and this machine would be great. not sure what your getting at with the brake helping with thread cutting you disengage the feed not stop the machine. i would go to H&F and have a try of both machines, looking at quality of work, how easy the gears change and the feeds engaged. dont think you will be able to see them under power but it doesnt hurt to have a play with the leavers . i wouldnt worry about changing to the motor just run it and mayby latter change it.
    On smaller lathes with 240 volt motors that have a foot brake you can stop the lathe instantly with the foot brake which makes it easy to thread up to a shoulder and does not require disengauging the halfnuts . You just withdraw the tool as you brake then start again in reverse.
    On bigger 3 phase lathes the motor is usually quick reversable so it does the same thing.
    The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z' is given by pi z z a.

  7. #7
    Dave J Guest

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    I would not believe the weights stated on there website as my mill was 800kg when I bought it then it went up to 1100kg on there website now it's down to 970kg?
    After having a look at both I noticed that the AL336 has more theading pitches available 36/54 compaired to 26/40 on the AL960 also 18 speed(65-1810) compaired to 12 (70-1440) of the AL960.Other than the extra 15mm in compound travel and an extra 2mm in spindle bore of the AL960 I dont see much difference.
    What tooling comes with the seconed hand lathe?
    Dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Thanks to everybody who has replied so far.

    pipeclay - the 336 comes out in front when looking at speed, thread ranges, and feedrates, but the 960B has a larger spindle bore, swing and travel of cross and compund slides. The speed issue can be fixed by a VFD, I will have to check that the threads on the 960B cover all the the "standard" ones-but this leaves feed rates. Is the range of the 960B too fast at the bottom end? 0.03mm/rev compared to 0.009mm/rev on cross feed and 0.06mm/rev compared to 0.04mm/rev on longitudinal feed. The top speeds for both feeds on the 960B is much higher too. What sort of work would require the slower feed rates on the 336?

    Dave J - the tooling hasnt been sighted by me yet - it was described only as general purpose stuff costing about $200. My understanding is the lathe was been used to make parts for CNC company - but what parts I dont know. Will be investigating further when the lathes owner returns early next week.

    Look forward to hearing more views on the subject.

  9. #9
    Dave J Guest

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    I would try to get him down on the price if you can? I just checked the old catalogs from 2007-2008 and they were $3995, minus the GST because he is a business brings it down to around $3600 that he paid back then.
    If you lived over this side of Aus I would recomend the Gasweld lathe https://ishop.gasweld.com.au/ishop/stock/item/580713
    but I dont think they are over in WA.
    Dave

  10. #10
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    Default Al-336 vs al-960b

    HI All,
    I have been looking at the AL-335, AL-336 and AL-960B Myself. Was in Melbourne recently at Hare and Forbes I looked at the AL-335 and the AL-960B (AL-336 was not in stock at the time). I found both Lathes to be Very good. Gear Levers felt good, Hand Wheel movement was a lot smoother on the AL-960B. There was nothing wrong with the Handwheel movement on the AL-335 though, just not as smooth. The AL-960B has a better finish, and keep this is mind it is a Tool Room Quality Lathe - Therefore very Precise as long as it has set up right.
    The Chinese Lathes have improved a lot over the Years. I remember going into Hare and Forbes in Clayton about 5 Years ago and looking at some poorly finished Lathes with Very Very stiff Handwheels. I actually Rang Hare and Forbes in Sydney Today to ask about the Al-335 and AL-336 Cross Slide Travel as the Catalogue says 130mm. Which is a bit restrictive when compared to the Swing. After Telling them that the Asset SM-1236A Lathe Claims to have 170mm Cross Slide Travel. Ian Stewart said they would Ring me back. He rang back 10 minutes later, the AL-335 and AL-336 have 175mm Cross Slide Travel from start to stop. The 130mm of Travel was explained as being from the start to the lathe centre. Ian also said he has been told Prices are going to come down.
    If I had the choice providing the AL-960B info is correct, I would Buy the AL-960B. If i was though going to be Turning a lot of small Diameter work then definately the AL-336. Dave J is right about the price of $3,995.00 for 2007/2008. The Price though was definitely including GST.
    All The Best steran50 Stewart

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Default

    Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. Obviously a lot of knowledge and experience are present on this forum. I will definitely be post a lot of questions on here in the future.

    Dave J
    Thanks for the pricing from 2008! I was planning on bartering a bit - now I know how hard to push. I checked out the Gasweld lathe at the link you provided. I signed up for an account, entered my address and freight showed as $0! Would have to check that obviously - but if the 960B doesnt come cheap enough I will look at the Gasweld over Hare and Forbes. Thanks for the link!

    steran50
    I havent been able to get to Hare and Forbes yet, so your side by side experience of the 335 and 960B is much appreciated. Your point about possibly incorrect info is taken - I will confirm the measurements that H&F list on their website with measurements of the physical lathe. Any idea about the time frame for the price drop? I could hold off on the purchase for a while, especially if the drop is substantial. Why do you say that the 336 would be better for turning a lot of small diameter work? Is this because of the lower feedrates and higher spindle speeds?

    Keep the opinions coming!

  12. #12
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    Default AL336 Vs AL960B

    HI Markjaffa,
    I don't know when the Price drop will be, or how much it will be. Ian Stewart did'nt elaborate on that, just that Prices are going to come down. I said the AL-336 would be better for Smaller Diameter Turning, because of its Higher Spindle Speeds. I don't believe that the lower Feed Rates would benefit Small Diameter Turning at all. Yes, it was Good to have a chance to have a look at the AL-335 and AL-960B. It was unfortunate though that there was No AL-336 in Stock in Melbourne at the Time. I had settled on the AL-336 Myself, To Buy late this or early next Year. However if Money Permits I might go for the AL-960B.
    ALL The Best steran50 Stewart

  13. #13
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    Before anybody hands over the extra money for a Taiwanese lathe,I would suggest to check it over. Retormilling is very disapointed with his AL1000 which he only bought a bit over a year ago. If you look over the posts in this forum you will read about (some) of his troubles.
    I think that to a lot of home shops, a new larger type lathe is a once in a life time purchase. If you can go to the shop to look at it,take the time to go completely over it and have them run it (if possible) before paying. Most shop are only interested in making money, not you and any problems you have when you get it home.
    Dave

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by steran50 View Post
    The AL-960B has a better finish, and keep this is mind it is a Tool Room Quality Lathe - Therefore very Precise as long as it has set up right.
    The Chinese Lathes have improved a lot over the Years.
    Don't read too much into the advertising "tool room" propaganda...They are no doubt a nice machine but built to a price point not a quality point.. I think my AL1000C is advertised as a "tool room" machine.. It is a nice accurate machine, but no where near what I would would call "tool room" quality or design..

  15. #15
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    Default Hare and forbes price drop

    HI,
    I have just been on the Hare and Forbes Website. The Prices on the AL-335,AL-336 and AL-960B Metal Lathes have dropped by about $600.00 roughly.
    All The Best steran50 Stewart

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