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16th Aug 2009, 08:02 PM #1
CNC mill: Syil X4 vs Sieg X3-Promica
Small CNC mills: I've been looking at the options of
1. Sieg KX3 cnc mill, sold by Minitech in Brisbane for $10,000
2. Sieg X3 bought from Hare and Forbes with Promica (cnckits.com.au) conversion kit, which checks out at about $2000 for the mill, and about $4000 for the kit (4-axis)
3. Syil x4 cnc mill, sold by Toolmach.com.au (see too Syil) for $6,000
Links are there right through to the products, check them out for yourself.
The KX3 might be the safest of these options in that it is factory fitted and has the 'name', but it is pricey. A bit too pricey, maybe. The Promica kit has a good reputation on web forums and no reason to doubt it at all (but imagine dropping dead and the missus gets the 2nd-hand dealer to look at the Frankenstein conversion thingy her dear-departed spent 6 grand on -- conversions aren't good assets). The Syil one seems not to have such a good reputation, but that might boil down to just one or two vocal people with their own opinions who've become opinion leaders (and do the criticisms have substance, or is it just pejoratives), but the Syil price is sharp.
For me it comes down to machining accuracy, and trouble-free CAM-NC operation.
So who has some ideas here? Is the Syil so bad - and do you own one? Anyone done the Promica kit? Who's cock-of-the-hoop with a KX3?
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16th Aug 2009, 08:45 PM #2Golden Member
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If you were looking at self build (option 2) as opposed to a turnkey solution, then cncfusion.com would be worth a visit.
You'd have to source motors, power supply,controllers etc but it would still come out well under $4000.Geoff
The view from home
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16th Aug 2009, 09:02 PM #3
I don't know that I would have enough background to mail-order from the US and then figure it out myself - that's why for diy the Promica option seemed better to me - they are closer by, and promise support.
Also when I looked at CNC fusion, they seemed to have the metal bits but not the electric parts. Motors sourced elsewhere, I guess - then the controller boards, then the pwm chopper whatsit gizmos then the ... ahhh, no. No, no. I don't need another project, becoming a CNC mill designer! Has to be a complete solution.
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16th Aug 2009, 11:04 PM #4
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16th Aug 2009, 11:42 PM #5
Hey, John: In Queanbeyan, huh? There's no address on the Toolmach website, so that's a surprise.
When I googled, all I got was your other WF posts. Have you done much with your X4, especially anything where your were contouring parts or tolerances were close?
Have you stripped anything to see how ell the hidden arts are made/finished/put together? When I got my Hafco AL330 lathe I did a complete strip as it was so poorly finished. But its a really nice machine now.
What about accuracy? Tolerances? Run-out? Binding bits, or loose bits? What do you think about the x-axis dovetail surfaces? Anything like that, I'd love to know.
Also, what would you say to the various detractors of the Syil X4 on the machinist/cnc forums?
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17th Aug 2009, 12:48 AM #6
Give Frans a call on 0413296256, his workshop is just up the road from the Queanbeyan RTA.
I'm still learning, but parts are repeatable and the tolerances are good and within 0.05~0.02mm. I have found that cutting tool, feeds, speeds, and depth of cut all play a part in getting the part cut right i.e. it's sometimes the operator not the machine that makes a bad part.
I haven't fully stripped mine down, but adjusting the jibs correctly does wonders for accuracy.
From what I have read, the biggest problem most have with the Syil machines are the electrics. I did have one problem with the spindle speed controller, but that was quickly fixed with a swap over of a faulty board. Other than that, I've had no problems at all.
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21st Aug 2009, 06:09 PM #7
Just an update on this thread ...
I've been talking to Promica in Melbourne, and am leaning toward their product. For one, I think the electrics/electronics are well thought out and are backed up by good technical service. Yes, seems Syil still have some problems in that department if the various forum posts are to be believed.
The Promica add-on kit is using the standard X3 by preference (higher spindle speed) so a little bit of a saving there, and the X3 seems to be pretty much the small mill of choice to the masses so I believe that service of it will not be a problem.
The tolerances and the finish produced by the X3-Promica seem very high quality judging by the photos Promica has of work they've made on the mill. So I'm happy there.
And lastly, I spoke to Hare and Forbes in Melbourne, who sell the X3, and they are endorsing the Promica kit as high quality, also they are happy to maintain warranty on the parts of the X3 that remain original, i.e. not converted by Promica (Promica are guaranteeing the conversion side of it). So yeah, that's the main reasons I'm swinging toward the X3-Promica conversion.
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