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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default Hafco Hm52 on the fritz again

    My new piece of garbage Hare & Forbes mill is playing up yet again .
    Every time I go to use it right from the first day something new had to be fixed.
    This time the motor will not start properly and makes a loud rattleing buzzing noise .
    Sometimes if you turn it off and back on it starts and runs ok.
    Today I could not start it for about a half hour and eventually it started .
    I am thinking it could only be the changover switch which is some place in the motor end.
    Or the start capacitor.
    One capacitor is 30 Uf and the other 200 uf.
    Which one would be the start capacitor?
    Any help appreciated as I am scared to turn it on because it sounds like its is doing harm to the motor and once I get it going I am scared to turn it off.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for a suitable replacement motor ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australind , WA
    Age
    58
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    1,277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Retromilling View Post
    I am thinking it could only be the changover switch which is some place in the motor end.
    If you mean the centrifugal switch that cuts in the the 'run' winding, it sounds about right. Its probably just a bit sticky. If might free up over time, it might not.
    Question is, do you want to fix it yourself, or do you want a new motor, under warranty?
    If you can access the switch easy, you might be able to free it up.If you need to dismantle the motor to get to it, you have to decide if you want to go that far.
    Very annoying on a new machine, but these things happen......
    I hope its an easy fix for you.

    Sterob

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    109

    Default

    if its new ring up Hare and Forbes and claim warranty.

    Sounds like its the start cap which will be the 200uF. Sometimes the OEM Chinese ones arent that great on some of the stuff that comes out here.
    I am sure they will be happy to send you a replacement cap out to fit up to it and see if problem ceases.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lindenow
    Age
    50
    Posts
    869

    Default warranty

    I had bought an AL-340D and had a small problem with spindal speed selector I called them to see what they would do for me warranty wise{i was thinking i would have to re/load and drive back to them 4 hours down the road} But to my surprise they sent a warranty technition down to me with a ute load of parts and fixed the problem straight away on my site.So what I am trying to say is give them a call they will be happy to help IMHO.i am not affiliated with hare and forbs in any way other than a satisfied customer.Hope this has helped regards Matt
    Warning Disclaimer

  5. #5
    Dave J Guest

    Exclamation Retomilling

    Retomilling
    If that is a new mill you should check the table for thickness end to end and also see if it’s warped by swinging the head out to the end of the table putting a dial indicator on it and run the table back and forth in the Y axis direction. I recently had mine an 11/06 model taken back because the table was tapered up to 0.1 and the Y axis ways was milled not ground as advertised and a noisy quill. They supplied a second one a 10/07 model his time the table was warped 0.1 one end 0.2 the other end the opposite way, also the column was not square to the base and many other things. They tried to supply me with another mill but the 2 in Sydney and the 2 in Brisbane were warped they said they knew there was a problem with warped and green cast tables but had not checked them that way with a dial indicator. So now I have my third a 2/09 model and its strait finally. They bought a container load from another manufacturer(I was told by the warehouse they bought a container load until the original one gets its act together)this one’s a HM52 B I had to pay a extra $1000 because these models come with a DRO.They told me the 2 that went back are being sold again?
    Dave

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    They told me the 2 that went back are being sold again?
    Dave
    Great business to deal with....

  7. #7
    Dave J Guest

    Default

    If you are going to replace the motor go 415 motor around $300 with a VFD around $300 it sounds a lot but that way you don’t have to change belts very often. Here is a link to a conversion http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~thetinkerer/projects/HM52VSD/index.html it could also help out if you are thinking about using a standard 240 motor to replace it.
    I don’t know what problems you have had with your machine but these new machines are allot better than the others the fit and finish is better and a few extras that didn’t come with the others, different vise, spindle keyed, Knee gib screw in the bottom extra support in the base under the front of the column and some other things.
    Dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brisbanefitter View Post
    if its new ring up Hare and Forbes and claim warranty.

    Sounds like its the start cap which will be the 200uF. Sometimes the OEM Chinese ones arent that great on some of the stuff that comes out here.
    I am sure they will be happy to send you a replacement cap out to fit up to it and see if problem ceases.
    Thanks for the replies all , It is new but I have had it over 12 months now so I don't think they will cover it under warranty now . This is the forth break down in 12 months . Anyway I claimed warrant repair on a fault on my lathe and they only fixed it temporarly ! The fault has returned worse than before. The technicians ignored the 3 oil leaks ! I have had to fix them myself .
    I'm fairly certain they just refitted the same part with a bit of graphite to shut it up for a while.
    The only person at Hare & Forbes Sydney , that seems to care is George in warranty and spares.
    Thanks " brisbanefitter " that is what I needed to know. I don't want another Chinese made capacitor . I will try to buy a better quality pair of capacitors .
    Question: How important is it to get the exact capacitance value ?
    Would say a 180 Uf or 220 Uf 400V capacitor work also?
    I will ring Hare and Forbes and ask George if he can supply some quality capacitors . If not I 'll try elsewhere . He supplied new Japanese bearings to replace faulty Chinese ones before.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    If you are going to replace the motor go 415 motor around $300 with a VFD around $300 it sounds a lot but that way you don’t have to change belts very often. Here is a link to a conversion http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~thetinkerer/projects/HM52VSD/index.html it could also help out if you are thinking about using a standard 240 motor to replace it.
    I don’t know what problems you have had with your machine but these new machines are allot better than the others the fit and finish is better and a few extras that didn’t come with the others, different vise, spindle keyed, Knee gib screw in the bottom extra support in the base under the front of the column and some other things.
    Dave
    That sounds all well and good mate but first off I need a mill that actually turns on and runs reliably before I can think about converting anything .
    I am still battling the cost of tooling up let alone fixing a dud machine.
    I will never again buy a machine from Hare and Forbes . I intended to use this one to learn on and later buy a better one but H&F will not get the sale no way.
    It will be a good machine once I have fixed all the faults.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    109

    Default

    not sure on the capacitence value, I think as long as voltage is kept the same a slight variance in uF shouldnt matter but if possible I would go like for like in a different brand.
    George at Hare and Forbes or even one of the tech guys there should be able to tell you.
    You could also possibly get them from RS components or other electrical wholesale outlets with a retail front like Haymans, hagemeyer or turks.
    I wouldnt completely write off Hare and Forbes, reading the posts on here seems to be a mix of average and good service from them.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_g View Post
    I had bought an AL-340D and had a small problem with spindal speed selector I called them to see what they would do for me warranty wise{i was thinking i would have to re/load and drive back to them 4 hours down the road} But to my surprise they sent a warranty technition down to me with a ute load of parts and fixed the problem straight away on my site.So what I am trying to say is give them a call they will be happy to help IMHO.i am not affiliated with hare and forbs in any way other than a satisfied customer.Hope this has helped regards Matt
    Yes the H&F technicians came to my place too , but never actually fixed anything !
    They not only ignored three oil leaks but also ignored the " SECONDHAND "parts fitted to my " NEW " lathe .
    He even commented about how rusty and old the motor pully looked !!! but never offered to replace it . Never offered to replace the secondhand knobs on levers that were so old that they were all cracked and full of black GREASE from someones hands!!!
    ON A BRAND NEW $6350 LATHE.
    I took one of the cracked and greasy knobs too Sydney and showed it too the salesman that sold me the lathe . He said he would check up on what happed at the warehouse and get back to me still waiting! It turns out that he is no longer there but my complaint has just been lost or forgotten about . I have since replaced the knobs myself and made a new one for the forward reverse lever.
    The gib was hanging out of the compound slide and it had about .030 slap from side to side and there was metal shavings inside the compound slide and under the crossslide.
    I have had to tighten the cross slide thread nut to the maximum to take out massive slapp that was causing chatter . I appears as if it is worn! Same thing with the compound thread nut , it seems to have excessive backlash .
    I am very happy that you have had a good experience but unfortunately I only recieved dissapointment for my $ 11 000 .

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australind , WA
    Age
    58
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    1,277

    Default

    The Cap value is not critical. As long as its in the ball park and a high enough voltage rating it will be fine.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brisbanefitter View Post
    not sure on the capacitence value, I think as long as voltage is kept the same a slight variance in uF shouldnt matter but if possible I would go like for like in a different brand.
    George at Hare and Forbes or even one of the tech guys there should be able to tell you.
    You could also possibly get them from RS components or other electrical wholesale outlets with a retail front like Haymans, hagemeyer or turks.
    I wouldnt completely write off Hare and Forbes, reading the posts on here seems to be a mix of average and good service from them.
    Thanks Matt , you have been most helpfull . You will always get good and bad results from any survey on anything. However I recived a new lathe with obviously secondhand parts on it . The technicians did not seem interested , and my complaint to the salesman has resulted in nothing. So unfortunately I have written them off as far as purchasing any new machinery goes all bar George who is a good guy trying his best to make up for the rest.
    To be honest I actually think that they don't believe me , and think I am trying to pull a fast one or something , but I found out that the lathe actually came from Melbourne and it may have been interfeered with down there before delivery to Sydney .
    If you look closly at the lathe everything hada fault. The three oil leaks , the chuck has no trade name emblem , The compond is sloppy ,
    The cross slide nut is sloppy , the tails stock had a ding , the cabnet has rusty parts , the motor is squeeky , the pully is rusty , the v-belts are miss matched in length , lever knobs were cracked and secondhand , the four jaw has over sized key holes so the chuck key slips , I had to make a new larger one, the suds pump did not work properly ( Howeer thanks to George he helped me fix the problem) .
    I could go on . If you look at the overall lathe you think wow a nice new lathe but when you look closley at all the little faults it is obvious thata lot of second quality parts have been put together to make this lathe . Thats why I am angry with Hare Forbes.
    I did not buy a second quality lathe.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sterob View Post
    The Cap value is not critical. As long as its in the ball park and a high enough voltage rating it will be fine.
    Thanks Sterob ,

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    Retomilling
    If that is a new mill you should check the table for thickness end to end and also see if it’s warped by swinging the head out to the end of the table putting a dial indicator on it and run the table back and forth in the Y axis direction. I recently had mine an 11/06 model taken back because the table was tapered up to 0.1 and the Y axis ways was milled not ground as advertised and a noisy quill. They supplied a second one a 10/07 model his time the table was warped 0.1 one end 0.2 the other end the opposite way, also the column was not square to the base and many other things. They tried to supply me with another mill but the 2 in Sydney and the 2 in Brisbane were warped they said they knew there was a problem with warped and green cast tables but had not checked them that way with a dial indicator. So now I have my third a 2/09 model and its strait finally. They bought a container load from another manufacturer(I was told by the warehouse they bought a container load until the original one gets its act together)this one’s a HM52 B I had to pay a extra $1000 because these models come with a DRO.They told me the 2 that went back are being sold again?
    Dave
    Thanks for the reply Dave , At this point mate I am just trying to get a mill that works reliably as far as runout and taper goes I have checked the up -down runout of the x a y and it is only a few thou. so for the short parts that I mill it will be ok , If the bast*rd would switch on properly that is. However I do appreciate your comments and will check that later after I fix the motor.

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