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  1. #16
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    I'll need to be able to run it in reverse, and it would be nice to be able to jog - but can't see a logical way of commanding either of those via the control panel.
    How are those things normally done? Set up some form of simple external switch arrangement and find the appropriate terminals in the VFD to connect to or is there a better way?
    That's it - its all in the manual,
    Step one; setup switches and wiring as per page 19 in the manual.
    eg DI1 terminal is normally set as default to Run.
    One terminal of teh switch gies to DI1 the other goes to COM.
    Switch closed VFD starts, switch one VFD stops.
    Screen Shot 2019-05-09 at 3.15.01 pm.png

    Step 2: Then you have to set F0.11 to 1 so that the external switches will work
    (default for F0.11 is 0 - front panel)

    Step 3 Set the Correct codes for the DIs
    P33 shows what to set the DIs to using F1.00 to F1.08
    See how F1.00 is already set at 1 and chart below shows that 1 = Run/FWD,
    F1.01 is set for 2 ie REV.
    I do this on the same switch with 3 positions, eg up = FWD, middle = stop, down - REV
    No D! need be used for a stop.

    To set a FWD jog set up a switch connected to any unused DI terminal (other end to com) and set the corresponding F1.0x to 4, or 5 for rev Jog.

    Screen Shot 2019-05-09 at 3.10.03 pm.png

  2. #17
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    Awesome - I certainly didn't expect that level of detail!!
    Thanks Bob

    My next question was going to be how to control the speed if the front panel was no longer active, but looks like I can set F0.11 to 4 and have the front panel and the terminal block enabled at the same time.
    So should be able to still use the pot on the front panel to control the frequency.

    Steve

  3. #18
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    Awesome - I certainly didn't expect that level of detail!!
    Thanks Bob
    My next question was going to be how to control the speed if the front panel was no longer active, but looks like I can set F0.11 to 4 and have the front panel and the terminal block enabled at the same time.
    So should be able to still use the pot on the front panel to control the frequency.
    Yep

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by malb View Post
    At moderate power ratings where the rectifier block probably can handle all of the input current coming from a single phase, you may not even have to allow for derating to half rated power out, though it is a good rule of thumb for higher powered units.

    The issue with cheaper VFD units is that normally the output voltage is limited to the input voltage, so 240V in generally means 240V 3ph out, which in turn means motors max out at 50% rated power, need to be reconfigured for a different winding connection or need to be rewound/replaced to achieve maximum output. There are some exceptions that can make 415V 3ph from 240V single phase input by use of a different voltage boosting input stage. The more commonly available units were based on Asian VFD's and modified, available from the UK but were more than twice the price of the units they were based upon, and from memory limited to about 2KW output. I am not familiar with the Powtran offerings, so I don't know if the stepup VFD situation has improved any.
    Certainly not trying to undermine or argue with you Malb, I never have been an engineer, not even his bootlace, but as the OP is going to use a 4Kw inverter on a 3Kw motor, and intends to use very soft starts and stops, I would imagine that the rectifier diodes will most likely remain fairly unstressed. Bearing in mind, a milling machine in hobbyists hands would rarely be fully loaded, (unlike some production machines, which are often loaded to capacity), and the possibility that the rectifiers could be specced for 480V or single phase operation, the chances are that he should be pretty safe. Of course a crash, or workpiece coming loose and causing a jam could change all that in a few milliseconds. Hopefully the rectifier bridge is fairly easily replaced if it becomes necessary, and not firmly soldered to the main board, should my theory be proved quite wrong.

  5. #20
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by malb View Post
    There are some exceptions that can make 415V 3ph from 240V single phase input by use of a different voltage boosting input stage. The more commonly available units were based on Asian VFD's and modified, available from the UK but were more than twice the price of the units they were based upon, and from memory limited to about 2KW output. I am not familiar with the Powtran offerings, so I don't know if the stepup VFD situation has improved any.
    Powtran still don't make such a beast but Sako does, their SP220 to 3P380 models are called SKI670.

    Here is a 7.5kW unit - note the AU$ 415 price and $135 shipping !
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sako...3-13bf7f1e2932

    4kW for AU$230 and AU$79 shipping
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sako...3-13bf7f1e2932

    Full range here
    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale...KI670+SAKO+VFD

  6. #21
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    Trouble with the "parameter names" in the manual is that they are a bit open to interpretation.

    eg F0.02 Frequency command resolution ==> options are 1:0.1Hz, 2:0.01Hz ==> default is 2.

    So I think hmmm - that sounds like it would just change the coarseness of the frequency adjustment via the input panel pot.
    WRONG!!

    It changes the resolution of the frequency that is already set, so if your frequency was set to the default 50.00Hz and you change the resolution setting to "1" you end up with 500.00Hz

    Things got a bit exciting there for a few seconds....so a smidgen gun shy now...

    Trying to set a maximum frequency of 75Hz (already set in F0.19 MAXIMUM OUTPUT FREQ)
    And be able to control it via the pot on the control panel (think this requires also setting F0.21 UPPER LIMIT FREQ ==> 75, and F0.20 UPPER LIMIT FREQ SOURCE ==> 3 (Panel encoder)
    Does that sound right?

    Steve

  7. #22
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    For reference, this is what I ended up with to set max freq to 75Hz and allow it to be controlled by the control panel pot while running:
    F0.03 FREQ SOURCE MASTER ==> 4 (panel potentiometer)
    F0.19 MAXIMUM OUTPUT FREQ ==>75
    F0.20 UPPER LIMIT FREQ SOURCE ==> 3 (Panel encoder) **May not be 100% necessary**
    F0.21 UPPER LIMIT FREQ ==> 75

    Steve

  8. #23
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    I just stumbled across this quickstart guide to programming one of these Powtran PI500 VFD's.
    It shows a bunch of different scenarios for how you might set up external control etc.

    http://www.anlauf.klibo.de/fileadmin...ion%202017.pdf

    Steve

  9. #24
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    Digging up this older thread as I'm currently in the process of finalising this install.

    Regarding external speed control, the manual for this Powtran VFD says to use a 1Kohm 2W pot.
    I've currently got it running fine on a 25K pot - not sure what its power rating is but the pot is around 20mm diameter. Its just one I had sitting in my stash so won't be anything special.

    Should I bother sourcing a 1K 2W item, or just run with what's working now.
    I'd prefer to do it properly from the beginning rather than have having issues in the future.

    Steve

  10. #25
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    Just in case it helps anyone else, after doing an auto-tune for the motor in vector mode I found I was getting a 06 error (deceleration overvoltage).
    Look like the auto-tune changes the deceleration time (F0.14) and my case it was now only 2 seconds.
    Not sure what it was originally as I didn't change it and the manual says the default "depends on models", but I increased the value to 6s and the error no longer occurs.

    Possibly its a byproduct of doing an auto-tune with the motor still attached to the mill, and with the spindle in gear. I know you shouldn't auto-tune with a load connected, but thought the empty spindle wouldn't be an issue. That might have been a bad call.

    Steve

  11. #26
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    That error is a warning that you have too much voltage on the bus caused by too fast a deceleration rate. A braking resistor would fix it, as does slowing the deceleration ramp as you have done.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    That error is a warning that you have too much voltage on the bus caused by too fast a deceleration rate. A braking resistor would fix it, as does slowing the deceleration ramp as you have done.
    Yes, thankfully the Powtran manual is pretty good with the error descriptions.

    Supposedly doing an auto-tune is recommended, but there's nowhere that I can find that has details of what parameters it changes.

    I expected it to be internal profile black magic stuff to work out the optimum way to drive the motor, but didn't expect it to be messing with accel/decel times. I thought those would be related to the application rather than the motor itself.
    I guess the takeaway is don't be surprised if you get some errors and have to re-tune parameters after the auto-tune has messed with them!!

    Steve

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