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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Default Mossner Rekord bandsaw,which VFD?

    Hi all,as the title says,a large piece of German machinery followed me home this week in the form of a 1970 Mossner Rekord SSF420 vertical bandsaw,3 phase of course.
    2_resized.jpg.I've removed the motor and upon inspection of the electric motor plate I at first thought it was 2.2kw 415 volts 5 Amps 3 phase delta only.
    1_resized.jpgOn the underside of the connection box cover there was the usual diagram to change the connections to star,does this configuration also change it to low voltage ie 240volts 3phase?
    On the other 2 other 3phase machines I have the motor plates list various voltages and amps,So choosing a VFD was relatively easy.
    I changed the terminals to star and have temporarily connected it to the VFD I use for my shaper and it runs fine{no load},at the correct rpms at 50Hz as verified with a tacho.My question is if the plate states 415v3ph draws 5amps,is there a formula to calculate how many amps will it pull on 240v 3ph? and therefore which VFD? I have a Huanyang on the shaper and a AC tech on the mill,so maybe its time to give a Powtran a go but what size? and what model.This band saw has a hydraulic/gravity power feed system so I'd like to keep as much of the original horsepower as possible.
    Thanks,Nick
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by rustyovali; 10th Feb 2019 at 06:34 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    Default

    From memory, a 3 phase motor should be wired in delta for use on a VFD. Confirmation someone?

    Michael

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    From memory, a 3 phase motor should be wired in delta for use on a VFD. Confirmation someone?

    Michael
    Not necessarily - it should be wired to fit the voltage that develops its full power.

    It just so happens that if a 415V Y wired motor is converted to ∆ it will run on full power on 240v.
    If it is 415V ∆ then you are screwed because converting it to Y means it will only develop full power at ~800V.

    In both cases it will run BUT if you try and run it under load you will eventually kill the motor - Like I did on a compressor.
    The compressor came with a 4HP 415V ∆ that was burnt out so ai replaced it with a $30 5HP 415V ∆ (makes about 2.5HP on 240V 3P) and it lasted for about 6 months.

    There is no need to worry about current - just work on power. If it's a 2.2kW motor then that's 2.2kW whether its 240 or 415V.
    Then get a VFD that is rated for that power.

    For something like that BS I'd for a Powtran PI160 model. See attachment
    PI160 2R2G1
    Im using the 1.5kW versions on my Lathe and Drill press.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

    Default

    A 415V star motor can be run at 240V delta, but the nameplate shows this to be a 415V delta motor, so it won't perform to spec on 240V, and changing it to star will make it even worse.

    [Edit] Beaten by the VFD expert

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Morphett Vale SA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    A 415V star motor can be run at 240V delta, but the nameplate shows this to be a 415V delta motor, so it won't perform to spec on 240V, and changing it to star will make it even worse.

    [Edit] Beaten by the VFD expert
    Thanks RustyArc ,Bobl and Michael G for the replies.So it looks like its new motor time.I guess there are 2 options
    Option 1 3phase dual voltage motor+ vfd or
    Option 2 1 phase motor
    I'm leaning towards op1 what do you guys think?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Default

    Hi BobL,just saw the attachment,thanks.As the motor plate says 415 delta,{see photo in first post} Do you know if a PI 160 2R2G3Z uses single phase input? or is it 3phase in,3 phase out?

  7. #7
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyovali View Post
    Hi BobL,just saw the attachment,thanks.As the motor plate says 415 delta,{see photo in first post} Do you know if a PI 160 2R2G3Z uses single phase input? or is it 3phase in,3 phase out?
    G1 models are 240V SP in and 240V 3P out.
    G2's are 240V P in and 240V SP out.
    G3 are 380 3P in and 380V SP out.

    I have not seen any 240V SP in and 415V 3P out, in the Powtran range, even amongst their new models (150 and 500A's)

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