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  1. #91
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    Jul 2011
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    Can I just interject and ask where the 250A load came from?
    A large single phase welder can put up to 30A load on the workshop circuit (talking effective current here).
    The welding circuit (between the electrode and earth clamp) could be up to or beyond 250A, depending on the unit. But since a welder is essentially a gearbox for electricity, we are talking about two separate loads here.

    To put it in perspective, 250A would be equivalent of 100x 100W incandescent light globes on one circuit, which no electrician in his/her right mind would be seen installing, probably not even by a balaclava wearing apprentice doing an after-hours cashie.
    To put it in perspective you need only do a little bit of arithmetic.

    100 x 100W = 10KW
    30A x 240V = 7.2KW

    Plenty of electric hot water services, ovens and ducted refrigerative air conditioners are in that power range.

  2. #92
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    3,228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Modification to a car that had no effect on the malfunction.
    Is an air freshener, mounted illegally or not, classed as a modification to a car? I highly doubt it.
    Chris

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Feel free to search welding in the old WWF around 2nd Aug 2009
    I don't think I'll bother


    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    It does not take much of an imagination to work out what could happen if something went wrong.
    Oh I'd say it takes a fair amount of imagination. Please explain exactly what you think is going to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Com_VC View Post
    Wouldn't the breaker trip IF the welder did happen to draw too much current?
    Not on the planet we are talking about


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    Can I just interject and ask where the 250A load came from?
    25 x 10 GPOs on one circuit. 25 fan heaters would do nicely. You aren't going to complain that its less likely than your little story are you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    To put it in perspective, 250A would be equivalent of 100x 100W incandescent light globes on one circuit,
    You might want to check your maths.


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    which no electrician in his/her right mind would be seen installing, probably not even by a balaclava wearing apprentice doing an after-hours cashie.
    And yet that seems to be just what RC has.(although I would think 25 was unusual)

  4. #94
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    Jul 2010
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    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Is an air freshener, mounted illegally or not, classed as a modification to a car? I highly doubt it.
    Its mounted in a way that makes the car unroadworthy(or at least they used to be, I know they did change the details on drives view not to long ago but I don't know the exact details so MAYBE they are no longer illegal), I'd call that a modification. But if you'd like I'll change it to an illegally window tint.

  5. #95
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    1,322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    To put it in perspective, 250A would be equivalent of 100x 100W incandescent light globes
    While I pause and admire the maths exhibited here, talk of lots of incandescent lamps on a circuit does remind me of a shed project many years ago. I provided the electrical plan to the electrician show locations of GPOs and lights and switches and all that. The electrician used to be a council inspector, so I assumed not just well across his regs, but over and above most mortal sparkys.

    The shed had 6 x 500W halogen floodlights spaced along its length. Being a lighting circuit he just went and put those on a 10A breaker. The lights worked. We pretty much never used them, except about once a year when we'd be working into the dark, loading a truck with a forklift while tractors and other vehicles were circulating in a fairly tight area - a moment of intense activity at the end of a long day where you really want that light to see what you're doing, and to keep people safe.

    That's when we found out about the 10A breaker, because 6 x 500W lights draws 3,000W, or 12.5 Amps, and a 10A breaker will actually deliver that, without tripping, for quite a long time. We discovered, almost half an hour from memory. Then it'd trip and the workplace would plunge into darkness, and when it happened the first time, it was a moment where the workplace suddenly got extremely dangerous.

    We then learned to expect it, and fast forward to a few years ago, replaced the lights with LED units.

    That was the work of a qualified, licensed and highly experienced electrician, who happened to retire shortly after doing our job.

  6. #96
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    Oct 2006
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    Armidale NSW
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    52
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    915

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Strange I thought it was a pretty good one.
    Oh well, we all work to different standards I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Modification to a car ...
    No you are adding something (of no consequence) ... you are not modifying, replacing, etc, and you are certainly not replacing a "rated" part with a lower rated replacement.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
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    586

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamestllama View Post
    You might want to check your maths.
    Granted, I had a brain fart on this one. Proof that you can't be awesome all the time, I guess.

  8. #98
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    Jul 2010
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    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    Oh well, we all work to different standards I guess.
    Yes you could say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    (of no consequence)
    Yes that is the important part. I'm still waiting for the possible consequences "for the welder". If we can find one then the service centre will no longer need to use a work safe copout to avoid warranty obligations. They will be able to calmly explain "because the earth pin was 3mm narrower it caused all the caps to blow and fried everything".

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    you are certainly not replacing a "rated" part with a lower rated replacement.
    No No, you forget, replacing a plug is something to risky for even a sparky to do without a lab full of test gear.
    We modified the earth pin. The active and neutral are untouched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    Proof that you can't be awesome all the time, I guess.
    Well we agree on something
    So no problem with 25 fan heaters on one circuit then?

  9. #99
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    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    6,216

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    I purchased a 200 amp inverter welder some years back. Came with a 15 amp plug.

    Last year I purchased a second identical unit for someone else. This one came with a 10 amp plug.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  10. #100
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    You sure they were identical? Exactly the same electronics inside?
    Chris

  11. #101
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    Jul 2011
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    Granted, I had a brain fart on this one. Proof that you can't be awesome all the time, I guess.
    An example of why it should be legal to go check what your electrician has done by opening up terminal boxes etc? Because using your logic they can't be awesome all the time.

  12. #102
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    From the ABC website today:

    "The Victorian branch of the Electrical Trades Union pledged more than $1 million to the ALP, and another $200,000 to the Victorian Greens."

    That's one reason why we won't be adopting the NZ rules on DIY wiring.
    Chris

  13. #103
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    May 1999
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    Grovedale (Geelong) Victoria
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    74
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    6,487

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    POSTED FOR THE SECOND TIME

    DISCLAIMER

    No liability is accepted by U-Beaut or the Metalwork Forum's administrators
    or moderators for advice offered by members posting replies
    or asking questions regarding electrical work.
    We strongly advise contacting a Licensed Tradeperson for all electrical work.

    WARNING
    Information supplied within posts is not to be considered as detailed formal instructions to complete a task.
    Members following such information do so at their own risk

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