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  1. #16
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    Hi Shed,

    From the diagram all the switches look to be momentary ones.
    Best Regards:
    BaronJ.

  2. #17
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Shed,
    From the diagram all the switches look to be momentary ones.
    The diagram is most likely misleading.

    My experience is none of the VFDs I have will stay on or turn off using just momentary switches but maybe there is a way to program this. In fact repeated use of a momentary switch just result in a VFD error. A momentary switch has to be linked to a latching switch using another power supply and the output of the latching switch connected to the VFD.

    The main reason there I haven't persued momentary switches is because its state cannot be determined by a quick glance of teh switch position ie whether it's supposed to be on or not. I like using switches that have a physical position then a quick glance will confirm if it is supposed to be on on not. I don't even like using LED backed switches as the lights could fail and colour confusions can even add the complexity. The 3 Mile Island reactor coolant system failed because of colour coded light indicator inconsistencies on pump switches.

    That's why I have standardised on a 3 way toggle switch with up for forward, middle for off and down for reverse in my shed. Some say that this makes it too easy to go from forward to reverse. In the 7 years on the 4 machines that have this setup in my shed this has happened to me once. This was on my ww lathe where initially I had the switch wired the other way ie down was fwd and during a small emergency not long after I first wired it up I flipped the switch the other way and got it into reverse.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    The diagram is most likely misleading.
    My experience is none of the VFDs I have will stay on or turn off using just momentary switches but maybe there is a way to program this. In fact repeated use of a momentary switch just result in a VFD error. A momentary switch has to be linked to a latching switch using another power supply and the output of the latching switch connected to the VFD.
    I hear what you are saying Bob but I think that tomorrow I will wire a VFD up and try a momentary switch and see what happens, this part of the diagram seems to indicate that the latching circuit that you are talking about may be
    included in the circuitry in the VFD?

    If it does work it looks to me that one push starts and another push stops, if that does work then I would only need 2 switches, 1 for each VFD as don't need to reverse either motor.

    It couldn't be that easy, surely

    Thanks, shed
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #19
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    If it does work it looks to me that one push starts and another push stops, if that does work then I would only need 2 switches, 1 for each VFD as don't need to reverse either motor.

    It couldn't be that easy, surely
    It could be and I notice it does say FWD/stop but I have never got that to work on the 6 brands of VFDs including the HYs I have dabbled with.
    I look fwd to your result.

    BTW what are these VFDs driving?

  5. #20
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    It normally is a programming option or some VFDS require an additional relay. Otherwise the easiest way is the way that Bob has done it.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I look fwd to your result.
    Nup, it didn't work.
    Think I might try to contact the manufacturer so I had better brush up on my chinglish

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    BTW what are these VFDs driving?
    No 1 T & C grinder, for the wheel so I can vary the speed for different dia wheels.
    No 2 is for the work head motor to slow it down, it goes too fast for larger jobs and I spend a bit of time
    balancing drive dogs ect.
    No 3 is for a water cooled spindle motor for internal grinding, need to make the mounting plate for this.
    No 4 I put a 1hp 3ph motor on my little Centec mill, seems to work well but I still have to sort leaking oil seals
    and and some other minor things.
    No 5 just coz
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  7. #22
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    Nup, it didn't work.
    Think I might try to contact the manufacturer so I had better brush up on my chinglish
    Good luck.
    For the HY VFDs I have in the past repeated scoured the e-version of the manual for a reference to momentary switches but could not find anything.

    No 1 T & C grinder, for the wheel so I can vary the speed for different dia wheels.
    No 2 is for the work head motor to slow it down, it goes too fast for larger jobs and I spend a bit of time
    balancing drive dogs ect.
    No 3 is for a water cooled spindle motor for internal grinding, need to make the mounting plate for this.
    No 4 I put a 1hp 3ph motor on my little Centec mill, seems to work well but I still have to sort leaking oil seals
    and and some other minor things.
    No 5 just coz
    Thanks.

    It's all water under the bridge now but with such small motors these would have been prime candidates for the Powtran 130/160 series VFDs - they have an excellent manual, are fully featured (ie Vector drive) and more intelligent than standard HYs, half the physical size of the HYs, and they cost about the same as the HYs.

    VFDs.jpg

    The 1HP PI130 and the 0.5HP PI130 are the two I used on my mill. The 2HP 160 has gone onto my DP - it has a 1.5HP motor.
    The 3HP PI9130 is a super piece of kit - I bought it here in Perth as never used item on ebay and then found out I could have bought it slightly cheaper direct from the Powtran factory.
    I was going to use the 9130 on my dust collector but I upgraded it to a 4HP motor and already had a 4HP HY in my stash so used that - it's not like it needs a lot of low speed grunt/control/intelligence running a DC.

  8. #23
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    Do you have a link for the HY manual?

  9. #24
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Com_VC View Post
    Do you have a link for the HY manual?
    Sorry I don't remember where I got it - you may be able to find it faster than I can.

    PM me if you get stuck.

  10. #25
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    Just refreshing some info for remote panel for HY VFDs:
    This is the 'complete' set for two stopping settings (the really fast emergency stop will only work with an external brake resistor).
    But you can use any of the switches or settings from the diagram that are convenient and just leave the others off.

    VFD Remote Control Circuit final.jpg

    and a suitable switch layout:

    VFD Overlay.JPG

    PM me for manuals if you need one.
    Cheers, Joe
    again completely retired - more time to contemplate projects and spend more shed time....

  11. #26
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Thanks Joe - very helpful.

    I'm slightly confused by the stop/run labels on/under the red button.
    Is that like single start/stop button? push to start, push it again to stop?
    Or is FWD = start and Stop is just stop?

  12. #27
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I have found Joe's equivalent circuit in the Manual. Easy to find when you've seen it somewhere else,

    This still looks like separate buttons/swtches are needed for stop and start

    Screen Shot 2018-07-13 at 5.44.03 pm.png

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Thanks Joe - very helpful.

    I'm slightly confused by the stop/run labels on/under the red button.
    Is that like single start/stop button? push to start, push it again to stop?
    Or is FWD = start and Stop is just stop?
    Yes, I agree. It's confusing.... The bottom row indicates the 'RUN' line versus the 'JOG' line and gives directions..... ALL BUTTONS are momentary. So you touch the FWD button and it runs, touch the stop button and it stops. Touch the Jog buttons and it runs at 5Hz until you let go. Just for checking celarances and for running a dial incdicator - I us that ALL the time, I find.....
    The E-Stop at the top triggers the 0.1sec braking ramp and stops my lathe from flat out at 120Hz in less than 1.5 revolutions with screeching belts. At 50Hz it just stops dead and nearly jumps of the floor! I have never used it in earnest, but test it occasionally. Always frightens the crap out of me, despite knowing what will happen.....
    No relays needed at all.
    Cheers, Joe
    again completely retired - more time to contemplate projects and spend more shed time....

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I have found Joe's equivalent circuit in the Manual. Easy to find when you've seen it somewhere else,

    This still looks like separate buttons/switches are needed for stop and start
    Yes, that is correct. The other version in the manual shows the On/off switches: one for run/stop, the other for forward/reverse.
    I have used both options. The motorised workhead on my cylindrical grinder seemed better suited to on/off and fwd/rev switches to me...

    Horses for courses.....
    Cheers, Joe
    again completely retired - more time to contemplate projects and spend more shed time....

  15. #30
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    The manual may refer to 'edge' triggers or 'level' triggers -rather than momentary switches or normal on/off switches.

    And there will be a setting somewhere which sets the option you want.




    Russ

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