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14th Apr 2018, 01:14 PM #1Member
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Fitting remote stop switches to PowTran PI-160
I recently bought a PowTran PI 160 which I’m fitting to a Hafco bandsaw EB-280D (1.1 kW. 3.6 Amps).
As its Stop & Run buttons are very small, I’d like to fit a separate Emergency Stop button as well as a Finish Cut Switch (i.e. stop at bottom when cut through), which I’ve salvaged from the existing electrical controls. Both are NC and were wired in series.
I planned to use one of the seven multi-function digital input terminals powered from the +24 volt terminal and set the value to #8 – Free Stop (no braking).
When the circuit is live again, does the inverter automatically recommence power to the motor?
I’ve looked through 5-2-5 Start & Stop Control Group. There doesn’t seem to be anything I need to program for Start. I always lift the blade before starting a cut so it’s never initially under load.
Would it be preferable to use a standard on/off switch instead of the Emergency Stop?
Any advice or guidance would be appreciated. - Peter
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14th Apr 2018, 01:59 PM #2Diamond Member
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No it shouldn't start back up again when you lift the blade until you press the run button again. Just use momentary type push button switch. You should also be able to wire a separate e stop button somewhere that is easily accessable.
You might also want to consider a pot for variable speed.
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14th Apr 2018, 03:31 PM #3Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I just installed a PI160 onto my MW lathe.
See VFD install summaries - Page 10
The ON-OF switch cannot be a momentary switch it must be a switch that holds contact - OFF is obtained by disengaging contact.
This means you will need to think carefully about the switch placed into a finish cut position.
If it is a non-latching ON-OFF switch placed into the VFD ON-OF circuit as soon as the blade is lifted it will restart the motor.
What you could us is a switch system similar to that used to be able to switch the same light on and off from different switches.
A simple alternative is to use a simple micro switch as the finish cut switch (switch B) and put that in series with another latching switch (Switch A) that is turned on at the start of the cut . At the end of the cut switch B turns the VFD OFF. Now (BEFORE LIFTING THE BLADE) switch A off and then you can lift the blade without restarting the VFD. This is probably the way I would do it.
FWIW using a simple ON-OF switch that is left in the ON position means that when the mains power fails and comes back on it will start the machine - this is the default position. There may be a way to reprogram this feature another way but I have not been able to find it
To cope with the above I usually use a latching emergency switches at hip height to turn off the input power to the VFD completely. Thus when the power comes back on it won't even start the VFD and I know there is something I need to attend to.
If you want to use a momentary switches to start/stop the VFD you will need some sort of precircuitry using relays and no-vilt switches. I have done this on my Tri-grinder stand where two grinders share one VFD.
The PI160 is a great little VFD and extremely good value for money.
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14th Apr 2018, 04:21 PM #4Member
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Thanks for the feedback. I did have momentary switches from the old control system but will use a simple On-Off Switch instead of the Emergency Stop. I was wary about installing an Emergency Stop on the PowTran mains input. I thought I'd read PowTran advising against this because it could blow some of the unit's capacitors if halted this way during operation. However an Emergency Stop is useful in dire situations whatever the consequences.
I considered an external pot but prefer to use the saw's hydraulic descent control rather than vary the speed. It's a future option if I need it.
Bob, I like your enclosure solution as a bandsaw with coolant can be messy at times.
One other question: I have a 415 volt, single phase coolant pump on the bandsaw: 0.1 kW, 0.3 amps. Could I run it on 240 volts? It's only pumping coolant onto the blade.
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14th Apr 2018, 04:53 PM #5Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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Correct. The VFD MUST be connected direct to the motor and power to the motor be turned on/off using the VFD. You can have a switch on the outputs side of the VFD BUT the motor cannot be running if this switch is activated, which makes it useless to use as an emergency switch (However it can be used as a by pas with provided certain other precautions are taken.
However an Emergency Stop is useful in dire situations whatever the consequences.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-Type-...RmjwTMmPDCSNpA
I considered an external pot but prefer to use the saw's hydraulic descent control rather than vary the speed. It's a future option if I need it.
Bob, I like your enclosure solution as a bandsaw with coolant can be messy at times.
One other question: I have a 415 volt, single phase coolant pump on the bandsaw: 0.1 kW, 0.3 amps. Could I run it on 240 volts? It's only pumping coolant onto the blade.
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14th Apr 2018, 06:14 PM #6Member
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The coolant pump is labelled as 415v on its name plate. It was connected across two phases (it's M2 on the attached circuit diagram). The main motor M1 was two speed, switched across from 2 pole to 4 pole.
Coolant pump plate-min.jpgCoolant pump circuit-min.jpg
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14th Apr 2018, 07:04 PM #7Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I hope that old speed switch has been removed?
RE: Pump
Yep - its 415V SP. Not much you can do about it.
Its a tiny motor, only 100W. What about replacing it completely with a 240V washing machine pump which are about that power.
Here is the SAGA of how I did mine.
//metalworkforums.com/f65/t1846...p-coolant-pump
It took me a while to sort it but it has been super reliable since then.
I have and all SS 1960's era Russian 180W? 3P 380V closed loop coolant system I was thinking of setting up for a WC Plasma torch. I think it is a Y motor - must drag it out from under the house and take a look at it.
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15th Apr 2018, 08:57 AM #8Member
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The old main motor speed switch was the first item I removed.
The current coolant pump has me somewhat intrigued. The 415 volt label has been pasted over the original marking that was probably 230v. Hafco sell an almost identical model in 230v & 415v but their 415v is three phase: https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/P233 & https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/P232
After reading the washing machine pump posts, I have a redundant dish washer that may still have an operating water pump which could be adapted into service. We have several spare & redundant coolant pumps at work but unfortunately they're all 415v.
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15th Apr 2018, 09:22 AM #9Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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The current coolant pump has me somewhat intrigued. The 415 volt label has been pasted over the original marking that was probably 230v. Hafco sell an almost identical model in 230v & 415v but their 415v is three phase: https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/P233 & https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/P232
After reading the washing machine pump posts, I have a redundant dish washer that may still have an operating water pump which could be adapted into service. We have several spare & redundant coolant pumps at work but unfortunately they're all 415v.
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28th Apr 2018, 06:52 PM #10Member
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I’m having problems getting a PowTran PI160 to run a 1.1kW bandsaw motor. Initially the motor stutters (cogging?), begins to run & accelerate for a few seconds, the display cycles up to approx 25, then it stops and reports Error 11: Motor Overload. The motor has no load, just a free-running gearbox, no blade yet fitted. I’ve worked through the manual several times although some instructions are somewhat puzzling. I’m still not sure if the panel Pot is an “external” device. My settings are as follows (all others unchanged from default).
b0 - Motor Parameters
b0.00 Motor Type General asynchronous motor b0.01 Rated Power 1.1kW b0.02 Rated Voltage 230 b0.01 Rated Current 3.6 b0.01 Rated Frequency 50 b0.01 Rated Speed 1420 b0.27 Motor Param.Auto Tune It auto tunes as “still”
but not as“comprehensive”
F0 – Basic Functions
F0.00 Motor Control Mode Vector control without PG F0.04 Frequency Auxiliary Panel Pot setting F0.13 Acceleration Time 12 seconds F0.14 Deceleration Time 12 seconds
F3 – Start & Stop Control
F3.00 Start-up mode Direct start up (default) F3.07 Stop Mode Free Stop
F8.02 Overload Protection Allow (default)
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28th Apr 2018, 07:38 PM #11Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I always perform a complete factory reset and then set up on VF control and make sure the motor runs that way first.
Leave the vector control until everything is working correctly.
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19th Aug 2018, 09:19 PM #12Member
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Three months ago, I completed this project and successfully installed a PowTran PI160 on my bandsaw but thought I’d post something that may be useful to others.
The electric motor is a two-speed, Dahlander type, 2 pole 1420 rpm, 4 pole 2840 rpm, six leads: L1, L2, L3, U1, U2, U3. Initially one of our work electricians told me to wire it up as Delta using the six wires. When connected to the VFD, it ran only a few seconds, then stopped & reported “Motor Overload”. Eventually I found a listing of motor connections which included Dahlander types: https://www.hollandindustrial.com/wp...onnections.pdf
I used the “Constant Torque” on p5 where low speed is Delta, connected it as outlined and it’s worked faultlessly ever since. I then connected all the original switches (except the two-speed) to the Powtran using the 3-wire method and housed the electrics in a new plywood enclosure. Whilst I have the extension cable, I’ve yet to fit the Powtran display head into the switchbox facia.
VFD installation was the last chapter of a lengthy restoration of this bandsaw. It’s only 7 years old but endured an arduous life at work. A year ago, its gearbox drive shaft fatigued and snapped. The repair contractor replaced the drive shaft but was too lazy to fit new gearbox oil seals and simply dabbed some grease on the worm. This didn’t last long and wasn’t helped by the usual operator who failed to hear the worm drive grind itself to destruction. Repairing it was deemed “too hard” and as it was destined to be scrapped, I acquired it gratis.
With help from a workmate, I machined a new worm drive & worm wheel only to find it wouldn’t freely rotate in the assembled gearbox. More machining didn’t succeed until my mate suggested changing the pressure angle. (gears were metric module 2.5). More milling & turning, and sure enough, the worm drive meshed faultlessly. Over several months, I’ve cleaned, painted and reassembled, fabricated and added retractable castors to move its 300 kg bulk around my workshop, now have a working double-mitre industrial bandsaw. In conclusion, thank-you to my workmate for help with the worm drive and thank-you to BobL for assistance with the PowTran.
bandsaw01.jpgbandsaw02.jpgbandsaw03.jpgbandsaw04.jpgbandsaw05.jpgbandsaw06.jpg
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