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Thread: Question for the VFD Guru's
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11th Sep 2017, 05:33 PM #1
Question for the VFD Guru's
Have a HM52 Mill with 2 x 1.5 HP Motors (one Vertical and one Horizontal) 3 Phase and a 3 Phase 0.85kw power feed I believe, what is the best way to use a VFD on this and what Power VFD.
Shane
Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!
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11th Sep 2017, 06:04 PM #2Most Valued Member
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Do you have a wiring diagram?
Does the control transformer(I assume it has one) have a 240V tap?
Stuart
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11th Sep 2017, 06:25 PM #3Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I assume you wish to use a VFD because you don't have 3P? if so then the motors must to be compatible with and convertible to 240V 3P.
Post photos of motor name plates and connection boxes
AND
Even if you are prepared to just use the 50Hz output of a VFD (which is a bit a of a waste of a VFD) you would need to stop all motors and employ a cross over switching system to select the motors you wish to engage.
Assuming the motors are called A, B and C can you post a list of which motor combos you would like to run
eg
A
B
C
A&B (not C)
A&C (not B(
ABC
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11th Sep 2017, 07:06 PM #4Most Valued Member
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Hi Bob,
Cant imagine why someone would want hoz and vect spindles at the same time(though hey its probably happened). So maybe we can rule ABC out?
So I'd have the spindle motors on 1 VSD with a change over.
The power feed? I don't recall seeing a HM52 with a 3 phase powerfeed, but IF it is I cant see a useful way to get around having a second VSD, other than as you say sticking with 50Hz. I've been there, and it didnt last long. I thought I wouldn't need a speed pot, but fitted it anyway, "I'm not that lazy, changing gears isn't that hard".....I think I was drilling my fourth hole when I used the pot So it turns out I am and it is.
Stuart
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11th Sep 2017, 07:29 PM #5Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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So if
Horizontal spindle = A
Vertical Spindle = B
Power feed = C
Then the list is
A
B
C
AC
BC
Anything else?
If not, they a 5 way cross over would be needed to run it from one VFD - wiring is going to get REALLY messy.
And it doesn't take into account power differences between the 1.5 and 0.85kW motors so motor protection for the 0.85kW would be not available
Best Option is two VFDs
1) 1.5kW VFD and a simple cross over switch like I did with my twin Grinder setup
AND
2) A second 0.85kW VFD for the power drive? Haven't seen a 0.85kW VFD in my travels, a 0.75kW would probably cope.
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11th Sep 2017, 10:09 PM #6Most Valued Member
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I reckon your feed motor will be 110V with a transformer in the control box. If so, and if you are lucky, the transformer might have multi volt inputs. So you might be able to run transformer from 240V.
Ive just been throught this with my mill.
peter
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11th Sep 2017, 10:14 PM #7Most Valued Member
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just thinking a bit more, if the transformer is multi input then your other problem should be easy to solve as well. I'm not an electrical wizz but I cant see why you couldnt use your existing reverse switch to output to one motor when in one position (say forward) and then output to the other motor when in the other position (rev).
You will be controlling motor direction from the VFD.
peter
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12th Sep 2017, 07:41 AM #8
This is the Wiring from the H&F Manual, Wiring.jpg
Shane
Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!
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12th Sep 2017, 08:26 AM #9Most Valued Member
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Hi Shane,
Does your Vert spindle have a 2 speed motor?(that's going to make your VSD a lot more costly)
Did you check if the power feed was 3 phase?
Stuart
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12th Sep 2017, 08:35 AM #10
I pick the mill up today or tomorrow, will have more info after that, can't complain about the price $800, yes it is 3 phase have seen it plugged in and running.
Shane
Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!
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12th Sep 2017, 08:50 AM #11Most Valued Member
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I guess we'll wait for the pictures.
If it has 3 phase power feed I'd say its pretty old(nothing wrong with that) so the wiring maybe a lot different. we'll see
Stuart
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12th Sep 2017, 01:32 PM #12
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12th Sep 2017, 02:49 PM #13
1st picture is inside Vertical Motor cover, so can be wire star or delta. Other pictures are of inside the electrical box and it has a Transformer, not to worried about running dual speed motor, single speed ok and will adjust speed with VFD,
DSC_0004.jpgDSC_0005.jpgDSC_0006.jpgDSC_0007.jpgDSC_0008.jpgDSC_0009.jpgDSC_0010.jpgDSC_0011.jpgDSC_0012.jpg
and the last picture is how the Vertical motor is wired at the moment.
DSC_0013.jpgDSC_0018.jpg
Info Plate on Motor
DSC_0016.jpgShane
Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!
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12th Sep 2017, 03:50 PM #14Most Valued Member
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Ok the good news. It only cost you $800
The bad news.
I doubt your vertical motor can be easily rewired to run on 240V(BobL has been able to get a 2 speed 415V motor to run as a 1 speed 240V motor but its a bit of work)
Other options are replace the motor,
get it rewound
get a 415V output VSD(currently about $760au for 2hp, which would seem to make either of the above a better idea)
or try it as is on 240V and see what you think($140+ on ebay for 2hp), it would depend on what sort of work you have in mind for it, you may find 1/2 power fine for small cutters. If you don't like it you haven't lost anything as you need a VSD anyway.
Sadly the transformer doesn't appear to have a 240 primary.
You'll need to replace that I'd think. I'm still guessing the 110V tap is for your power feed.(got a picture of that?)
Is the thing above the transformer a Fwd Rev switch?
Stuart
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12th Sep 2017, 05:33 PM #15
Looking at the Circuit Diagram, what do the Bottom 2 lines of text mean regarding 240 volt.
Shane
Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!
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