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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    Looking at the Circuit Diagram, what do the Bottom 2 lines of text mean regarding 240 volt.
    For you? Nothing really*, its referring to 3 phase 220V. I'd hoped there would be a 220v primary tap for that reason, but it sure doesn't look like it.

    Stuart

    *other than the wiring maybe ok for the current you'll be drawing using 1/2 the V(though I wonder if anyone has built a mill with wires sizes that close??)

  2. #17
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    Just one more option: You can sometimes find 240 to 415V transformers. Once you have 415V (single phase), you have the option to use a suitable 415V VFD to generate the 415V 3-phase. That would allow you to use the 2 speed motor you have as is. Sadly, the Delta - 2Y motors can't simply be wired for 240V 3-phase.
    I've just gone through that exercise - successfully so far. I found a 1kW transformer, bought a used 415 2.2kW Lenze VFD and found that it is happy to run on single phase. I'll restrict it's output to the 1kW input I can give it, that way the rectifier diodes stay within their limits. The other thing that I hadn't expected is that the Lenze VFD is explicitly suitable for motor-side switching! That means I could switch the motor speed while the VFD is running!
    Interesting new option....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  3. #18
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    Hi Joe,

    I like!
    That would sort out his transformer issue at the same time.
    Going to have to keep my eyes out for one.

    Hi Shane,

    You've got a 3 phase coolant pump at a guess. Not much of an issue though.

    Stuart

  4. #19
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    Sadly, the Delta - 2Y motors can't simply be wired for 240V 3-phase.
    My Delta - YY lathe motor is wired to 240v 3 phase with both speeds working.

    Dean

  5. #20
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    Hi Dean. You'd better tell us how! pretty please
    Was it a 240V 3-phase motor made for the US? or did it start off as a 415V 3-phase motor made for Australia/Europe and rewired to 240V (without being rewound)?
    BTW, I do know of a theoretical way of rewiring the latter, figured out by RayG, but there are so many embedded coil ends involved, I've never managed to do it without stuffing up the insulation....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  6. #21
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    So if I run a VFD on a 415v 3 phase I will get half the speed and half the torque is that correct.

    Also what happens if you use a larger VFD say a 2.2kw instead if a 1.5kw.

    What if I just run the high speed winding on the VFD and not the low speed. Just exploring all options as there are many differing opinions on Google.


    Need someone to explain the difference to me, at the moment I have a HM-45 running fine on a VFD, the plate of the motor and the vfd I am using are below, this has been running happily for 3 years.
    it is a 1.5kw vfd running a 1.5hp (1.1kw) motor and the motor appears to be 415v

    DSC_0021.jpgDSC_0022.jpg

    Let's forget about the Power Feed, I have a 240v to 110v transformer that will take care of that.
    Shane

    Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    So if I run a VFD on a 415v 3 phase I will get half the speed and half the torque is that correct.
    If you run a 240V VSD on your mill as currently wired(i.e. for 415V) you will get about half the torque(i.e half the power) all the speeds will be about the same. Its unlikely you will have the same range of speed adjustment with the VSD before power gets to low to be much use.
    If you run a 415V VSD on your mill as currently wired(as Joe said above) you will have full power and a larger speed range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    Also what happens if you use a larger VFD say a 2.2kw instead if a 1.5kw.
    A larger VSD won't help. (infact I think if you were sure you were going to run it on 240V but wired for 415V you could in theory use a smaller VSD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    What if I just run the high speed winding on the VFD and not the low speed. Just exploring all options as there are many differing opinions on Google.
    I dont see how this makes any difference, other than "not having switching after the VSD" which some people worry about. Its not an issue as long as they VSD output is off when switching speeds, and in some cases it doesnt even have to be off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    Need someone to explain the difference to me, at the moment I have a HM-45 running fine on a VFD, the plate of the motor and the vfd I am using are below, this has been running happily for 3 years.
    it is a 1.5kw vfd running a 1.5hp (1.1kw) motor and the motor appears to be 415v
    Many single speed 3hp and below 3 phase 415V motors can be easily rewired to run on 240V.(
    Most other single speed 3hp and below 3 phase motors can, with a little work, be rewired to run on 240V.
    They are Star wired, thats the Y on the bottom left of your HM-45 motor plate. They are rewired to Delta Δ to run on 240V.
    2 Speed motors are different, they aren't nearly as easy, if at all. Now it maybe possible(re Dean above) but it would be at least 3 times as much rewiring. I'd have a chat to a motor rewinder and see if they are interested in trying and how much they would want, prices are all over the place.

    Hope I've made things better and not worse.

    Stuart

  8. #23
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auskart View Post
    Need someone to explain the difference to me, at the moment I have a HM-45 running fine on a VFD, the plate of the motor and the vfd I am using are below, this has been running happily for 3 years. It is a 1.5kw vfd running a 1.5hp (1.1kw) motor and the motor appears to be 415v .
    You need to remember that while running, a motor does not constantly produce it's rated power, the power output depends to a great extent and up to a point on the load and not many machine users operate their machines at full load capability.

    In other words this just means that the the HM-45 has not been loaded up near the 1.5HP output ability of the motor.
    If most of what you are doing only needs half the 1.5HP then you would never know there was a problem.
    On the odd occasion when the load was such that the motor needed to deliver a bit more than 0.75HP it was able to do this provided you did not do this for too long.
    If the over loading is done in short bursts depending on the motor you can probably do this for a few years and get away with it.
    OTOH if the load is constant, such as on a pump, the motor will degrade and die sooner or later.

    I ran my WoodW lathe like that for a few years as all I was doing was small spindle work which doesn't need much power/torque.

    While we are talking VFD's I have been dealing with Powtran in China to purchase a decent quality 3P-3P VFD.
    I started out trying to go through their Alibaba portal but that was hopeless so I approached them direct and their response has been EXCELLENT.

    Powtran's latest entry level Vector Drive VFDs (PI9130A series) are full vector drive with the braking circuitry built in, dual speed potentiometer, dual displays and a host of other features - most of which we will never use.

    The standard large red LED display shows any value that a machine operator would need to see, while the smaller 4 line OLED (multi-lingual) display screen shows other parameters and is useful for programming. These are much more ruggedised units than the comparable Huanyang VFD models and given the quality the prices are very reasonable.

    Their 220-380V prices are
    Their 1.5HP model (1R5G1) is US$115
    The 3HP (2R2G1) is US$129
    5HP (004G1) is US$160
    Delivery via DHL is US$40

    I ordered a 1.5HP 3P-3P VFD (1R5G3)and it was the same price as the 1R5G1.
    So for a total of AUS$200 I get a full vector drive VFD with a host of useful features.

    The contact email is [email protected]
    The Persons name is Nicole Chan.

    Back in May in the woodwork forums I did a side-by-side comparison of an older model Powtran (PI9100 series) with the HY and you can see some of the differences.
    The old model had dual LED displays whereas the new one has an LED and an OLED screen
    VFD install summaries

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    If most of what you are doing only needs half the 1.5HP then you would never know there was a problem.
    On the odd occasion when the load was such that the motor needed to deliver a bit more than 0.75HP it was able to do this provided you did not do this for too long.
    Damn I didn't think of that, I just assumed it had been wired in delta.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    Hi Dean. You'd better tell us how! pretty please
    Was it a 240V 3-phase motor made for the US? or did it start off as a 415V 3-phase motor made for Australia/Europe and rewired to 240V (without being rewound)?
    BTW, I do know of a theoretical way of rewiring the latter, figured out by RayG, but there are so many embedded coil ends involved, I've never managed to do it without stuffing up the insulation....
    How? Pretty please? I have no idea. I just hooked it up against the recommendations from the forum and it worked.

    It is a Chinese built motor/lathe (CY) sold in Australia. The motor (original) is as I have said, Delta - YY. It is rated for 415v. It had a 2 speed switch. I started by just connecting to the VFD in Delta. All worked perfectly. Quite some time later I connected the VFD to star just to see what happened and it worked fine at full speed. Now I have contactors set up and have put the 2 speed switch back in to switch them. I don't have protection from changing speeds while it is running. I rarely use high speed, but it is there when I need it.

    I think it is a good idea to just try a motor before doing anything expensive and irreversible. Sorry I cannot help anymore than this. When I first started asking on the forum about connecting this motor to a VFD I was told it would not work. Knowledge has improved since then. It is a very complex subject tho.

    Dean

  11. #26
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    Bob,

    Are you referring to 220v 3P - 380v 3P VFD's with all of those listed?

    Dean

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    When I first started asking on the forum about connecting this motor to a VFD I was told it would not work. Knowledge has improved since then.
    As I recall the original idea was for you to run your 415V motor on 240V to limit the power output, there by limiting the input current required as at the time you couldn't supply the current needed to run at full power.
    Yes some people get bent out of shape about switching after the VSD, they still do I believe. As for interlocking, how many people have protection from changing gears while running?(yes some laths do but many/most don't)

    But unless you've done a lot of work to the motor, you wont be getting full power, just full speed(subject to what Bobl said above about getting more power for short periods) which given the power of your lathe isnt likely to be an issue all that often. But then. you never claimed full power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    My Delta - YY lathe motor is wired to 240v 3 phase with both speeds working.

    Which I think is what Joe was thinking.

    Stuart
    Last edited by Stustoys; 13th Sep 2017 at 11:15 AM. Reason: added quote

  13. #28
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    As I recall the original idea was for you to run your 415V motor on 240V to limit the power output,
    And here I was thinking it was because 240v was all I had.

    But unless you've done a lot of work to the motor, you wont be getting full power, just full speed
    It is a bit worse than it seems because the motor is 7.5Hp, but the VFD is only 5Hp so the maximum current is less than half required to acheive full motor power. I have not yet had an issue with lack of power tho and I have taken some pretty big cuts. The amp meter has not gone above about 8A in actual use. The only time I have reached a limit is with trying to crank the motor up just to see how it would go. The VFD maxed at about 12A, a bit shy of the 23A it should have done.

    Initially I only had a 10A circuit to run the lathe from. I have now installed a 32A circuit, but I only have a 15A GPO as I don't believe I will need any more than that.

    Dean

  14. #29
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    Bob,

    Are you referring to 220v 3P - 380v 3P VFD's with all of those listed?

    Dean
    Except for the 1R5G3, they are all 220V Single phase input to 220V 3P output.

    *R*G1 models are 220V Single phase input, to 220V 3P output.
    *R*G3 models are 380V 3 phase input to 220V 3P output.

  15. #30
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    Is there a problem if you use a larger rated VFD than needed, say 2.2kw or even larger when you only need 1.5.

    On my HM-45 it has a 1.1kw motor and I am running a 1.5kw vfd and never had an issue.
    Shane

    Got the square peg in the round hole, now can't get it out !!

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