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Thread: Depression...

  1. #46
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Denial is an important issue for depression.

    My MIL (a former Pharmacist) never believed in "Depression" and came from the "pull your socks up" school of treatment for mental health issues. Later in life - the year or so before she died , she suffered badly from it but refused almost any medication - I believe she wanted to depart this earth and was suspicious that any meds would prolong her life. As a result she had a miserable year. She did finally ask for pain meds 4 days before she assed away.

  2. #47
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    Thanks for that explanation Joe. Its dropped a lot of pieces into the puzzle for me personally.

    For years I was one of those people who thought that medication was a bit of a cop-out for most people, and that GP's were just handing them out as an easy fix rather than getting people to address the cause.
    There was also my perception that using medication meant that you'd failed to "sort out your own crap" like us blokes should be able to do.

    I'm fortunate that my wife was able to get me to recognise that what I was experiencing needed to be addressed externally somehow since I obviously wasn't able to deal with it by myself. One of those "conversations" that could easily have resulted in us living separately...
    I agreed that we'd go to my GP together to discuss it since she was probably better positioned to describe my moods/behaviour than I was.
    Long story short, I got lucky and a minimal dose of first flavour "anti-depressant" prescribed made a massive difference to life and the universe for both myself and all those around me - within a couple of weeks. Apparently that fast response indicates that it was related to anxiety somehow...

    I know everyone is different and what works for me might not work for others, but if you're struggling to cope please don't reject medication outright without actually trying it first to see if it helps.

    Steve

  3. #48
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    Glad to hear you got on the right track quickly.
    It took me months and months, because like many, I thought it was somehow "giving in" - and fearing side effects. As a result I had side effects from several of the medications prescribed and ended up in the "I knew medication won't help" camp. Eventually, a psychiatrist friend of mine gave me a prescription for escitaloprom (an SSRI) and all fell into place again. I've stopped taking it a few times "because I was better".... Now I take it every day, and probably will until I kick the bucket. Not worth the hassles of depressive episodes.
    Since it is a biochemical issue, I like to make the analogy to diabetes: nobody would dream of stopping Type 2 Diabetes medication because "they are better now and don't need it any more".
    It is also generally worth saying that mental illness is in principal easier to manage than diabetes! If you mess around with medication or insulin and stop monitoring your blood sugar levels, you will be in a crisis within hours - and have serious and life threatening long-term consequences.
    At least with mental illnesses, if you miss a dose or ignore symptoms for a day or two, nothing major happens. You just have to stick to the treatment give or take. Do that with diabetes and you might be dead in a week......

    One additional thing about depression specifically: in many people (including me), medication alone will restore the biochemical balance and keep you moods (or "affect" - which is what others observe about your mood state) stable. The feelings of loss of self-worth, self esteem, confidence and looking at the world from a pessimistic perspective are NOT changed by medication. So to get back on top, psychotherapy is VERY important. Psychologists and qualified therapists from a medical or nursing background (like myself until 7 years ago) can make a HUGE difference. By learning or re-learning better coping skills, better realty checking and learning to look for confirmation of indicators of ACTUAL perceptions of other of you will make life a LOT easier - and reduce the likelyhood of recurrent depressed episodes.
    When we are depressed, if "feels" like nobody cares, the world doesn't need you, you are a burden to the family" etc etc. In most cases the is simply NOT true. Learning to go and check that is very helpful. Conversely to tell people in depression that they are needed, valuable and better depressed and alive than missing altogether DOES make a difference.
    I have averted many likely suicides in my professional life to get families to actually SAY that to their suffering family members. In all case that hadn't even occurred to the person!
    I got lots of feedback that those events were turning points. Worth keeping in mind....

    By the way: psychotherapy puts YOU in the driver's seat. Therapy doesn;t really happy in the session. It happens on the way home and in your thought processes over the next few days.
    EVERY time I left my therapy sessions, I thought on the way home that I could have expressed my perceptions and feelings better in the session; I forgot to mention important aspects; I responded stupidly to questions; I hid stuff that I shouldn't have' etc etc. For me THAT was actually what changed my thinking and coping, not the talking in therapy itself.
    So if anyone goes to therapy as a result of these discussions, remember that. Often people say "that was a waste of time" or "that made no difference to me" or "I learnt nothing I didn't already know". That is NORMAL - because the session itself only sets thought processes in motion. YOUR thought processes. Only YOU can change thought processes and coping skills and responses to bad things happening. NEVER someone else. - But without THEIR SKILLS used in sessions, initiating those thought processes wouldn't occur to you!
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  4. #49
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    Default Pain mangement

    I noted that pain experience and management has raised its ugly head in this thread.
    There is a strong correlation between chronic pain and depression. If you read my previous posts, you will see the connection easily. Chronic pain that isn't managed well will ALWAYS result in depression. That's a biochemical inevitability. No surprises there.
    Pain is a very odd phenomenon though. I studied it in great detail at one stage. Lots of research going on because of the huge cost to society and the incredible risks in mis-management (like addiction, dependence and serious side effects).
    Here is an explanation that may help....
    Pain is NOT transmitted to the brain as a warning from affected body areas or sensors! The bodies' sensors are: sharp pressure, blunt pressure, hot, cold and anoxia (lack of oxygen to tissue).
    Pain is the response IN THE BRAIN to sensations being sent to the brain from sensors which are ABOVE some set-point or limit switch setting which WE (subconsciously) perceive as "risky". That means an urgent CONSCIOUS signal - an "alarm code" if you like - has to be triggered to stop you doing what you are doing, initiate fight or flight response or a reflex to get away from whatever caused that alarm condition. THAT IS the function of pain. It also triggers appropriate physiological changes required in an emergency.
    Now, since pain "thresholds" are different in different people, it seemed obvious to me to investigate if it was possible to "reset" those limit switches DELIBERATELY.
    It turns out, that it has always been possible and practiced widely. Because there is no clear mechanism nor explanations, it was a skill taught by "mystics", gurus, shamans, acupuncturists, weird other therapists etc. The result was that conventional medicine didn't look at it seriously at all - until recently.
    Medicine can only look at test results, x-rays and scans to EXCLUDE or CONFIRM changes that cause high levels of "sensory responses". If they are not present, then it was called "psychosomatic" - as mentioned by 4me and hunch.
    It means "caused in the brain" and therefore "not likely to be treatable with measurable results". Well, that is EXACTLY what all pain is. It's "all in the brain"!
    So when there IS damage, pressure, hot or cold beyond expectation of normal range, and it can be reversed, like healing cuts, removing the pressure, reducing or increasing body core temperature, the "alarm" in the brain will turn off - no more pain.
    Temporarily reducing the transmission of the sensor reports - so the alarm stops or doesn't go off - in other words "pain killers" is an option whenever the cause can't be fixed quickly. So a deep cut that's sutured will continue to send beyond-threshold level signals to the brain for a few days. Nothing can stop that. So taking pain killers for a few days keeps the alarm relatively quiet or still.
    If you have a back problem where some nerve roots constantly rub on a slightly protruding disk or a bony spur (osteophyte) and within the normal range of anatomy, without any damage, and your threshold to blunt pressure in that nerve sheath is set low, then you will have backpain that has no demonstrable cause. Many doctors are then at a loss.
    If you are religious, you could pray to your favourite saint, go see a guru, see an acupuncturist, a chiropractor or whatever. If you BELIEVE it will change your pain experience, it MAY WELL!
    What's psychologically happening is that you make your pain CONSCIOUS or tangible. Your belief may well reset the limit switches by "stealth" or "miracle"! Good on you!
    The agnostics and atheists among us can't do that. But we can do it deliberately and to us logically.
    When you have been "scientifically" shown that there is no demonstrable reason for your pain - and you have agreed to those findings(!), you can bring your pain into the consciousness and stop blaming the site (like your back) or the "incompetence" of the doctors, and TELL YOUR BRAIN not to sound the alarm any more for that particular set of sensors. I'm not kidding! It works!
    You can actually - even loudly - say to yourself "Brain, stop telling me that I've exceeded the limits for blunt pressure in my back. It WILL NOT change and is NORMAL for me at this time of day!" It takes about a year or two of persistence and determination (well it does for most people), just like going to a guru and visualising the spirit or karma or whatever. Then eventually, you can actually switch the pain in YOUR normal circumstances off!
    The interesting thing is that this process is actually not location specific. So you are likely to change the limit switches to other pain as well. So you may find bruises you don't know how you got them. You may even not notice cutting yourself until you see blood! So do be careful.
    The other thing is to get a bit more in touch with the physiological responses of your body to pain. So when your backpain is gone but you do dumb things like lifting badly, lifting more than you should at your age, take chances you know you shouldn't, you are still likely to start sweating, increase your heart rate and blood pressure and feel nauseous. Those are the normal responses to the pain "alarm" going off. Recognise them and stop doing harm! Wait until those responses have subsided before you continue to do whatever it was that started those (less intensly or with more common sense).
    If you stay in touch a bit more with your bodies' responses and signs, you can take very good care of your chronic pain WITHOUT ANY medication.
    Please DON'T stop taking pain medication for temporary injuries or pain causing illnesses!
    Remember what I wrote at the start: long-term pain WILL cause a chemical imbalance in your brain that may well trigger depression.

    Sorry this took a bit of writing and reading.... Now we are back on topic, right?
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  5. #50
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    As a kid i was very outgoing knew everyone in the neighbor hood young, middle aged and the elders i knew just about everyone, at around 12 to 13 years old i started suffering from mental health issues i started skipping school than ended in me leaving school at 13 soon after started the depression around 15 a few years pass with the depression going unrecognized i was in previous relationships with your high school sweet heart she use to follow me around and come around to my house to see me that faded away as i lost all contact with reality few more years pass and i date another chick in my 20's and she opened up my world and she realized i needed to see someone, it took another year of seeing the local GP and testing anti depressants i shortly after getting on medication went off the rails i was at the end of the road but my sister was there for me she is a health worker she pulled me thru the deep dark days and to this day i still thank her for being there

    soon after i started seeing psychologist she said there was nothing wrong with me i was physically able to work and do everything a normal person could do, i changed to another psychologist for 1 visit he too said there was nothing wrong with me

    i got in contact with another local GP who actually listen to me and my real life struggles he sent me to see a psychiatrist it was after about six months of visits the psychiatrist said he would take me on and put me on different medication

    to this day i have been seeing that psychiatrist for 11 years 1 to 2 monthly visits after 10 years pass i thought i only suffered from depression the doctor gave me a piece of paper with my diagnosis after 10 years as having major depression and schizophrenia i have been on medication since the beginning its a long time

    when i was around 18 years old to around 25 i had at lease 12 to 15 different jobs none i could keep none i could stay working at the longest stayed at was my first job 3 months i got verbally abused by the boss called every name u can think of, made to feel like u were insignificant i was only 18 years old still to this day i remember the abuse clearly

    their is nothing physically about me looking at me its all mentally, after being sacked or leaving those jobs it was tiring but now i have been on medication so long i feel i have a life back although the anti depressants make u feel numb and void it has actually given me a somewhat of a life i still get depressed i think about suicide a lot almost daily but no real deep dark days where i actually have a plan i thank the medication for that it really does help

    you guys probably notice i take on a lot of jobs that are probably not worth doing in your eyes and you get someone else to do it but for me its these jobs i like doing like a hobby it gives me something to think about and stay positive for it may be insignificant to others but its enjoyment for me

  6. #51
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    Gazza.
    I can only assume how hard that may have been for you to put that into writing for all the world to see. I salute you for having the courage to do that.
    Unfortunately the Aussie "culture" is such that "real" men don't discuss their feelings. Which is total BS. I think the culture is slowly changing but still has a long way to go.
    Hang in there mate.

    peter

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2009au View Post
    you guys probably notice i take on a lot of jobs that are probably not worth doing in your eyes and you get someone else to do it but for me its these jobs i like doing like a hobby it gives me something to think about and stay positive for it may be insignificant to others but its enjoyment for me
    Gazza, THANKS for opening up about your Depression.
    I totally understand where you're coming from. Having several projects on the go, keeps your mind occupied on the good things, masking the pain. I'm the same, there'd be something like 20 projects on the go in my shed, each one gets a little bit of attention.

    Should you ever want to chat off Forum, PM me OK, that goes for anyone else too.
    As Bollie (Peter) said, it's time that ALL MEN are and should be able to speak up about this illness.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #53
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    Peter it was bloody hard i locked my self away for months at a time never leaving the house as a kid mate if it were not for me talking to my dr i may have never discussed it in a open forum but talking about my problems open up my own awareness in doing so

    Thanks Kryn i appreciate that mate, i have a few dream projects on the go one is my 5.7 meter boat rebuilding it slow and steady just something to give me positivity in my life

  9. #54
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    Gazza,
    thanks for sharing your experiences!
    You might have opened my eyes to the "lots of projects on the go" defense mechanism. It does indeed gives you something to keep thinking about - maybe even stay pre-occupied about. I had never thought of it like that.
    I have enough unfinished projects to keep me occupied until I'm 125.... I wonder if that is a subconscious fear of us - not having anything useful, difficult, tricky or even appreciated to do? I have a terrible habit (and have had it since my teenage years) to start new projects before the previous ones are completed. As a result, there is lots of unfinished stuff all around me. It does indeed keep me motivated - although there have been times when I had to virtually force myself to go in the shed every day - instead of doing nothing all day. Thakfully that is very rare now.
    Many of us here might be in the same boat without realising it...?

    You mentioned that your antidepressants are making you feel "numb and void". They shouldn't do that! Are you still taking antipsychotics? They can do that - but that is a side-effect that should go away over time..... DO complain about those feelings to your psych! You shouldn't have to put up with that, especially not the suicidal thoughts.
    Just remember: those around you - at least those on this forum - prefer you depressed rather than dead! Keep contributing on this forum and continue to feel appreciated as a result!
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  10. #55
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    Jhovel

    I actually just came out of that mood so many projects on the go and i kept making more but had hardly any motivation it would be little things like my respirator needing new filters and i would need to drag my butt to bunnings to get the replacement parts than that its self just complicating it i hadn't touched the boat in months mostly over summer i chose not to fibreglass in the heat but now we are closer to winter i picked up the tools went out the other day and worked on it, may have only spent 1.5 hours cutting and grinding but it was something i just find it really hard to start for the day i have idea's i have the want i'm just missing the kick in the ass to get started once i'm up and running for the day its all good but than it just repeats its self again on another day

    I was on the highest dose of medications untill recently than i was told they now have a even higher dose

    I'm happy where its at now i live an ok life i dont think i will ever be fully cured of depression its just something i need to keep controlling for the rest of my life

    I pretty much have the support i need around me my older sister is in her last year i think of uni and she'll have a councellers degree

    Me and my sister share the same mother and father and unfortunetly my neice and nephews suffer from depression as well they have gone thru and are going thru what i went thru in the 1990's now but lucky for them they have an amazing mum and nan and we are all aware of mental health now

    When my depression started i hid it from everyone, my family didnt know for over 10 years untill my sister took me into the local emergency in a suicide state, best thing u can ever do is talk about your problems as you may not be aware of your behaviour, changes etc... for me it was hard to reconise my problems because i thought the quiet isolated life i lived was actually a normal life i have come leeps and bounds to today

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