Thread: Chainsaws and Poona Trees.

Of course I would NEVER touch a Poona Tree with a chainsaw, the thread title is tongue in cheek!

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I have a different opinion about this. I love nearly all trees. Scrubby twisted trees have suffered, and show great character. I have heard lots of people say "why don't you get rid of that tree?" Why do humans insist on visual perfection? I like magnificent trees, and trees with character.

I do quite a bit of travelling in the outback. I'm a city guy. But in 2000 on the news it said that Australia was suffering the worst drought in recorded history. Now as a young apprentice I was always being told by old-know-it-all tradesmen that I knew nothing. 'You don't know what hot is .. why way back ..' 'You don't know what cold is .. why when I was young it was so cold ...'

You know the type. So I decided, city-guy that I would go out west on my holidays and see the 'worst-drought-ever' and then when the ol'-know-it-alls said 'You don't know what it's like, why way back ...' I would be able to interrupt and say 'Yes I do, I've seen the worst drought ever'

So I did, and something strange happened. The drought of course was devastating. But what happened was that when I got back from holidays, and back at boring work, I missed the outback. I really did. I found myself waiting impatiently for my next holidays so I could get back out there. I put off all my clothes shopping, shoes, so that when I got out there I would buy all my clothes etc from the small towns that were doing it real tough.

Now I've retired and I go out there all the time and whenever I feel like it. I particularly love the deserts, camping in them, the isolation, the big-sky and the far horizons. It's just the most wonderful thing you can do, a campfire by a billabong on the Darling River, or a campfire among the Jump-ups in Sturt's stony desert.

Poona trees are desert trees, and quite possibly some of them are thousands of years old. Twisted gnarled wizened up ancient things ... and yet somehow they live on amongst the sands. Their correct names are probably Gidgees, Sheoaks, Beulah trees ... but I call them Poona trees.

Anyway, hope I'm not boring you guys. My last trip was last year. Now, what happened was a coincidence. That is, I had no fore-knowledge. I went as far as the truck (Nissan 2.3l diesel, 2WD) would go, and then I got out and started following an eagle that had come to check on me, I was in her territory. I was photographing. The eagle led me to the Poona tree ... and the Poona tree held a secret. And so I made this little movie of the journey.

Dean, If you like scrubby twisted trees, and you think they're filled with character (and they are) then you will like this movie

Hope you enjoy ... Greg

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Chimney or flue? I have never used a chimney fire for a long period. Waste of effort. We have 2 wood stoves. Kitchen range and lounge. Both have flues up a chimney. I rarely have to clean the flues and it only involves dropping a short chain on a rope and rattling it around. That is all I have ever done. What do you mean by "to gummy"? Where does this cause problems? There was a tree down over the road last year that had been trimmed enough to let cars get around it by someone. I cut the rest of it, finally back to the stump. It bled huge amounts of blood red gum/sap all over the road and into the trailer. Maybe a litre in total. It looked like a crime scene.

Dean

I'm not sure what you mean by 'chimney or flue'?

My fireplaces have straight chimneys through the roof. There is no butterfly in them. The control over the fire is by adjustable grates that restrict the oxygen flow to the fire.

my chainsaw is 7 years old, but has only worked hard for the last two winters. The chain wore out and even tho I could still sharpen it the chisels were too thin and could no longer clear the groove.

So I rung Makita in Sydney and ordered a new chain, new bar, new air-cleaner, new spark-arrester and two plugs. As it turned out I didn't need a new bar, but I didn't know that. I just presumed I would.

I was getting desperate because winter is upon us up here already and the guests were going thru the firewood without any economic concern. They think it grows on trees. heheee

The parts arrived. But the bar was narrower than my bar. Nevertheless, it fitted the saw. But the chain would not engage with the teeth on the drum clutch, it appeared to be shorter links. So I rung Makita again, and they said, no worries we'll send you another one. (The mix-up was my fault, I had given them part numbers from the book, I hadn't bothered to read the number on my bar)

But the new one didn't arrive. I needed fire-wood urgently by now and so I drove into the Stihl shop in Kingaroy. The guy there made me up a new chain and dressed the bar. He said I didn't need a new bar at all.

So that all went fine and I got my wood cut.

Then a package arrived from Makita. It was only the size of a cigarette box. It puzzled me, it stills puzzles me. There was no new chain or bar. It was a drum clutch, very precision engineered and a small gear that fitted onto the out-put shaft of the clutch. I have never seen anything like it. I'm wondering if anyone else has, or if anyone knows what this particular chain is for?

I asked Makita why had they made this, what was the purpose of it, and why was it so well engineered compared to the old chain and bar. They mumbled, but no one in Makita appeared to know exactly why this chain and bar is produced.

Here's some pics. This is my old bar with the new chain from Stihl. This works fine, it 3/8"

C6.jpg

And here is the strange bar-chain setup that eventually arrived from Makita. It's a very narrow bar. I have not used it yet. I'm not really sure what it's for?

C5.jpg

Here are some close-ups

C3.jpg

C1.jpg

C2.jpg

The bar is much narrower in height than my old one. My best guess is that it is some kind of specialist bar, used by those people who carve people and wolves etc from tree trunks, or who carve those ice castles in Scandanavian lands.

Greg

Narrow bars are quite common and there is nothing special about them.
Usually the longer a bar is the wider it is and the more belly it has, as this helps the chain stay on although if you look carefully its really just a smaller bar scaled up.

Also I note your old bar was a hard nose bar whereas the new one looks like a sprocket nose bar?
Hard nose bars are usually wider to hold the chain on where as the sprocket nose means a much narrower bar can be used.

The photo below shows my MS441 with the 25" bar and 3/8 Lopro chain, and an MS211 with a 12" carving bar and 1/4" chain.
Comp2.jpg

Here is a 60" sprocket nose bar I use on one of my Chain saw mills and you can see it's quite narrow
IMG_8680.jpg

By comparison this is a wide bar
220747475_b5683a041d.jpg

That's really interesting. But what do you use the '211' for? What's it's purpose?

Greg

PS: you must have just edited your post. If there is a link under the word 'carving', it's not working for me.

Holy Feck ... they are huge .... heheeeee

Do they serve a purpose? There is no way you could wield that about in a forest or on slopes

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

That's really interesting. But what do you use the '211' for? What's it's purpose?

Greg

Nature playground carving
Twotorttoises.jpg

Finished2.jpg

Wow. So much to learn.

I tried to carve the 'fell date' on my timber, but Icouldn't do it with mine, too rough.

That's really impressive.

So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?

Greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?

Nope, no difference really.

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

I'm not sure what you mean by 'chimney or flue'?

My fireplaces have straight chimneys through the roof. There is no butterfly in them. The control over the fire is by adjustable grates that restrict the oxygen flow to the fire.

A chimney is a structure built into the house, a flue is a metal pipe from the stove which goes up the chimney or straight up thru the ceiling and roof. I am just asking which you refer to when you said "put coke build up in the chimney"?

Wood from eucalypt trees takes a long time to properly dry. Many people don't wait long enough. If it is still partially green it can cause problems.

I had Council take a look as its on their property because I felt it may come down at any time but they said its ok.... time will tell.

Almost all large old gums have damage and hollows. Many native animals depend on these hollows for nesting including the Red Tailed Black Cockatoo which we see occasionally.

The possums here wear hob nailed boots at times, but the worst thing about them is their language. It is common to walk out on the back step and have a string of obscenities aimed at you.

I used 100 on the fence posts and 70 on the cattle rail. The bolts are just because I got so sick of seeing every cattle yard made from 'cattle-rail' and just welded to the posts. Farmers put nothing at all into appearance, just weld it up with cheep- cattle-rail. I decided to be a bit fancier than that heheee

I just caught up with this post. There is a reason that farmers use boring ol welding. Its called survival. You are just building a fence. If it was a cattle yard I would not want to risk my life against a large angry bull with rail connections like that.

I believe that the tyre tie down thing is because so many vehicles are built light and flimsy these days that some are not strong enough to be towed or restrained the way we are used to doing it. Its catering to the lowest common denominator.

Dean

Originally Posted by BobL

Narrow bars are quite common and there is nothing special about them.
Usually the longer a bar is the wider it is and the more belly it has, as this helps the chain stay on although if you look carefully its really just a smaller bar scaled up.

Also I note your old bar was a hard nose bar whereas the new one looks like a sprocket nose bar?
Hard nose bars are usually wider to hold the chain on where as the sprocket nose means a much narrower bar can be used.

Take another look Bob. I can see a ring of rivets in the first picture.

Dean

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

Holy Feck ... they are huge .... heheeeee

Do they serve a purpose? There is no way you could wield that about in a forest or on slopes

Yanks!! Always ready to throw money away for nothing. I think testosterone may have a small input. Think monster trucks. I have seen a video of these competitions where an actual vehicle motor was used in a saws. 2 Guys actually lifted it and took a cut.

Years ago I was told that it was a good idea to buy 2 chains, a bar and a sprocket together. When the chains are worn out buy 2 more and a sprocket and check the bar to see if it is worn enough to require a wider foot thingy (forgot the name again) that goes into the bar slot. You are aware that as the slot in the bar wears wider you can get different chains to fit the wider slot?

From the sound of it your chain is worn well beyond where it should get. There are many chain sizes. I only know about the ones I use. The size designations seem to be about as consistant as firearm cartridges. The firewood cutting mate built a firewood cutting rig mounted on a prime mover. All hydraulic. He tried many bar / chain sizes for his hydraulic chainsaw. The hydraulics just broke the chain. He finally built his own bar using 3 x 1/4" plate pieces and a 3/4" chain.

Bob is one of the more experienced people I mentioned earlier. I love his work. I also love the picture of him out bush sittting in his comfy chair watching, while his saw mill does its thing on a rather large log.

So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?

It can still be used after the old one is worn out. Think of it as a spare.

I have downloaded the video. I will watch it later when I have more time.

Dean

I see the replacement bar is for .325 chain, not 3/8" that you currently run. The chain is not compatible. The replacement sprocket also looks like it is for 325 chain.

We run 325 on our small saws which are around the 55-60cc capacity. Our Stihl MS660 we run 3/8, others would run .404 chain on it. Narrower chains have a smaller width of cut so you get more power in the cut. What chain do you run? semi-chisel or chisel? Semi-chisel is rounded profile, chisel is square. semi-chisel is better for dirty cutting, chisel chain as the very tip is a sharp right angle cuts better but the tip is weaker.

Google tells me you actually have a Dolmar chainsaw, Makita just badge engineer.

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Almost all large old gums have damage and hollows. Many native animals depend on these hollows for nesting including the Red Tailed Black Cockatoo which we see occasionally.

I'm not a raving-greenie. But all my land is natural and I'll never place domesticated animals on it. Beside, it's impossible to fence. I have ten hectares and my rear border is with the National Park. They can't access this border, except thru my land. On their side of the border are 1000s of hectares of pristine rainforest, impenetrable except from my border. it's doubtful that any human, even Aboriginal, has been in there. It's dangerous, as I know, (you can only make progress along the ridge tops) because you are ALWAYS forced in the end towards the edges of a ravine. You can't see the bottom, it curves out and the canopy makes it pitch black. The soil becomes loose because nothing is growing on the dark floor, you start to slip and as you retreat in panic it becomes 2 steps up and 1 step back, like climbing a sand dune. I've clutched at tiny weeds and roots for traction.

It's a dark and eerie place, and I gotta admit I'm scared shitless by the wild boar and that one of them is gunna charge and not retreat. The silence gets to you. You become scared, at least I do. I'm hoping to make it from my mountain summit to the next summit where Dandabah sits. Each time I try my bottle goes and I come running home to mummy. I mark the spot where I was. Next time I go to that spot and make a new assault for another 100 metres before I bottle out again.

The ranger's helicopter bait my border and that whole area regularly.

However I consider all this land as mine, and no one can say it's not because no one else can get there .... heheeee.

Sorry for waffling. Back on track, when I fell the dead ironbarks I take each one from a different location, even tho others are close by in the one location. Because as you say many species depend upon dead trees. The average narrow-leafed ironbark is only 150-300mm diameter. And they don't live overly long. My firewood depredations are well below the sustainable growth rate

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I just caught up with this post. There is a reason that farmers use boring ol welding. Its called survival. You are just building a fence. If it was a cattle yard I would not want to risk my life against a large angry bull with rail connections like that.

Yes, I know that. But what I sorta mean is there is no attempt at symmetry. They just weld it on where it touches, sharp edges protruding. They're great at achieving joins at any angle at all, except 90 ... Hehe

Greg

PS: I only take timber from my own land.

Originally Posted by .RC.

I see the replacement bar is for .325 chain, not 3/8" that you currently run. The chain is not compatible. The replacement sprocket also looks like it is for 325 chain.

We run 325 on our small saws which are around the 55-60cc capacity. Our Stihl MS660 we run 3/8, others would run .404 chain on it. Narrower chains have a smaller width of cut so you get more power in the cut. What chain do you run? semi-chisel or chisel? Semi-chisel is rounded profile, chisel is square. semi-chisel is better for dirty cutting, chisel chain as the very tip is a sharp right angle cuts better but the tip is weaker.

Google tells me you actually have a Dolmar chainsaw, Makita just badge engineer.

I've never heard of Dolmar, but it's a great saw. Both my bars have a wheel on the end of the bar that takes the bending moment of the chain.

Makita have sent me the complete bar, chain (.325) and the clutch-drum with the odd shaped chain engagement wheel. In the pic above. So I have two working sets, but not interchangeable. I have not used the .325 bar yet.

I think my chain is chisel, the top of the blade is dead flat. I think I do dirty cutting, but I try never to touch soil. That's why I tend to billet where the log falls. But sometimes I have to jinker because any billet-load on the bush-pig would be unsafe for that geography, whereas jinkering becomes a safer option. I use a high-grade Ronstan Spinnaker clip which can release at a tug on the string no matter the weight of the load. If a heavy log gets a roll on it will take the bush-pig with it. The bush-pig only weighs 470kg. Jinkering is when the logs pick up stones and dirt. It's very slow as the log constantly jams and I have to get out and clear, or take a different pull. I've thought about making up a front sled to strap the log into. (Because I'm just a one-man operation... hehe)

After cutting jinkered logs I always check the teeth for any gouges. I sharpen at -10, +30. Then I height check the lead in post, it's supposed to be 0.64mm below the blade. I just use a plate and a vertical vernier height gauge to do this. After a number of sharpens I will check each post. The lead in post is curved at the front edge, and I maintain the curve.

I'm not sure of the cc capacity of my saw. It's 3000kw or 3.5hp in old terms.

Thanks for info, especially on Dolmar, I will look them up. Strangely enough tho Makita or badged Makita, it's made in Finland.

Greg