Thread: Chainsaws and Poona Trees.

It is easy in my area because there are chainsaws everywhere and there is a bloke about 90km away who specialises in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Walk into his workshop and there is probably 100 saws around.

So much for that idea. I checked yesterday just to make sure and the shop is closed up. It did not surprise me tho. Times are achanging. Less and less people doing the work themselves so hiring profesionals. Virtually no pine fallers anymore. He may be operating from his residence or something. I guess I should have had a closer look to see if there was a notice in the window instead of just lazily driving past. I did have one surprise tho. We were close to where we lived 27yrs ago so we went and had a look and almost nothing seems to have changed in the whole street. Wow! 27 years and no change.

When I run out of bar oil, which I often do, then I make a mix of engine oil and auto-transmission fluid.

New engine oil? Sounds expensive to me. I bought 20 litres of bar oil yesterday so I must be thinking of doing this wood cutting for a while yet. That cost me $90 which is $4.50 / litre. I used to use old engine oil years ago, but bar oil has tackifiers mixed in so it sticks to the chain and bar and is all I use now that I have good saws, bars and chains. I think it is more likely that you baby the saw. You probably sharpen the chain when it should be instead of "there's just bit more to go" etc. Not that I do that. I read on a website a couple of days ago that when a chain needed sharpening you should take it in to a shop to have it done. Maybe that is what we are doing wrong. The shop I went to yesterday had a price list on the counter. $20 to sharpen a big chain, $12 for a small chain. 24" cutoff point I think.

Dean

Originally Posted by .RC.

Don't worry, I got short changed in other parts of my body.

I am not sure ATF does anything. Remember an automatic transmission oil can not be super slippery otherwise the clutches and brakes in the transmission will never hold. I have seen people use just engine oil. Chain bar oil has a high viscosity so the oil does not just all get throw off the bar

It's just that they were the only two chemicals I had to hand

I added the transmission fluid just to make it less viscous in case the engine oil was not suited to the oil galleys of the saw. Better to have it flooding out than not at all I thought at the time. It has worked, for whatever reason, as the bar has not worn ... or it could be that Dolmar make a very good bar, despite my mistreatment.

The disadvantage is that you have to clean the dust-extractor volute quiet often. The sawdust gets damp with oil and clogs.

I oil the chain with transmission fluid before I start the saw. It seems to lubricate and act as solvent. That is, you start the saw, and before the bar oil has begun to reach the chain the auto fluid flies off everywhere and takes all the gunk sawdust etc caught on the chain with it.

By the time the bar oil replaces the auto fluid you have a nice clean chain to set off with.

ummmmm ... I wouldn't necessarily take my advice, it works for me. But I know nothing about saws, just experimented with my own.

Greg

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I think it is more likely that you baby the saw. You probably sharpen the chain when it should be instead of "there's just bit more to go" etc. Not that I do that. I read on a website a couple of days ago that when a chain needed sharpening you should take it in to a shop to have it done. Maybe that is what we are doing wrong. The shop I went to yesterday had a price list on the counter. $20 to sharpen a big chain, $12 for a small chain. 24" cutoff point I think.

Dean

You're probably right about me babying it, but it's the only one I have and I need it.

Makita recommend, in the manual, that you have the chain machined sharpened after every half-dozen hand sharpens. That's because with a hand file you tend to round edges over time.

I have never had a chain sharpened by machine. When I was first teaching myself I was meticulous about angles, heights and length of tooth. All this I got from the book. I usually full-on sharpen in the workshop and only hone-sharpen when cutting in the forest.

It only takes a few minutes to hone a chain once you are familiar and confident with sharpening. I usually cut down a black-wattle (I hate black wattles. Grass pretending to be a tree) and jam the saw in the forks.

The absolute best thing about field sharpening is that you immediately feel, and hear, the effects of your sharpening. You can tell you've done it right or wrong straightway. This instant feedback is the best teacher, tho it can be frustrating too.

Anyway, your confidence builds and eventually you can sharpen the chain on any angle of support standing on any slope. But it's an apprenticeship and takes a while before you are good enough and familiar enough to perceive results.

It works for me, takes only a few minutes, gives me confidence and cost nothing ... hehee

You're probably right about me babying it, but it's the only one I have and I need it.

Nothing wrong with looking after your tools.

That's because with a hand file you tend to round edges over time.

Is that what Makita says? I don't know how this is possible. What sort of sharpening do you use? There is a flat file guide that clamps onto the file. one that holds the file at the right angles and slides on 2 little shafts. It clamps on the bar. There is a 12v sharpener, an attachment for a dremel and the larger electric type, 240v. Probably some others as well. The real pro's just use a file and do all the angles with their hands.

I have had a saw sharpened professionally once. I think he did it at 35deg which is common for wood falling. It took ages to get it back to 30deg.

All this I got from the book. I usually full-on sharpen in the workshop and only hone-sharpen when cutting in the forest.

What do you call hone?

I usually cut down a black-wattle

What do you call a black wattle? Acacia mearnsii, Acacia melanoxylon or something else? Both are native to our area, both are beautiful trees and we have planted lots of both of them. Neither could be considered grass in any stretch of the imagination tho so I guess you have a localised common name for something else. Both can be good firewood although insects just lurve mearnsii. You don't leave it laying around.

It works for me, takes only a few minutes, gives me confidence and cost nothing ... hehee

A 28" bar takes a bit longer.

Dean

I only have a guide template that locks to the file. Also the new chain has 30 deg line engraved on each tooth.

Because our arms are cantilever, as me move our arm forward it changes the height of our hand as the arm extends. We counter balance this with our brain in order for our hand to remain steady. Mistakes creep in and become amplified over time. When I was a little baby apprentice we had to file with 'blue'. That's where you learn how unsteady your hand is .... heheee

My biggest problem here, by far, is Lantana. Black wattle is a small weed like tree that springs up in any cacant space at the expense of native grasses. The Bunyas are an isloated Jurassic forest and have some weird grasses, plants, and especially trees. I use Grazon on both lantana and black wattle in my immediate vicinity. Grazon is 80 a litre if you poor. And around 600 if you can afford 20 litres at a time.

It kills (absolutely dead) canes like lantana, root-shooters like black wattle. I won't hurt trees unless you deliberately cover them in it and the native grasses seem to approve of it with a smile. The hazard sheet is mostly caution thru skin irritant. But it's very expensive.

Honing is like when I sharpen my chefs knife on the diamond stone. My knife-draw across the stone become lighter and lighter. I sharpen my knife and my little axe till they shave hair on arm or leg. When they do that, then I hone them.

Greg

Black wattle is a small weed like tree that springs up in any cacant space at the expense of native grasses.

Sounds totally different to the ones around here.

root-shooters like black wattle.

It doesn't sound like it is actually a wattle. The acacia family of which wattles are part of are not capable of coppicing which is developing shoots when the tree is cut / damaged, as far as I know. Eucalypts are great at this which is why they survive most fires. Can you take some pictures of leaves and bark please. Flowers would be good if possible too. I just use a type of glyphosate, but I don't have anything to kill wholesale except grass sometimes. I have a 20l drum that has lasted for years.

Honing is like when I sharpen my chefs knife

Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

It doesn't sound like it is actually a wattle. The acacia family of which wattles are part of are not capable of coppicing which is developing shoots when the tree is cut / damaged, as far as I know. Eucalypts are great at this which is why they survive most fires. Can you take some pictures of leaves and bark please. Flowers would be good if possible too. I just use a type of glyphosate, but I don't have anything to kill wholesale except grass sometimes. I have a 20l drum that has lasted for years.

There are a few species called generic "black wattle". This one is probably the one referred to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_leiocalyx

It is quite common in narrow leaf iron bark country. The wattles up here are extremely good at suckering from roots, they are hard to kill with Tordon as you kill the upper main plant and a million come to the funeral and decide to stay. In fact in continents like Africa the wattle is a pest plant.

We have a wattle here called corkwood wattle, that is covered with prickles. Such is the diversity of the Acacia family

It certainly is a diverse family. Lots of acacia's outside their normal distribution are pest species. We had coastal wattle growing beside some of the roads near here. Nice bright green foliage compared to many and yellow flowers. Natural to the coast 140 odd km south, but a pest around here. Common names vary a lot in different areas. I go by the names in the books I have, one of which is Trees and Shrubs of South Eastern Australia which is regarded as the Bible for tree identification in this area anyway. We have been on a number of field trips with specialists in plant identification. We wanted to get a better idea about planting trees on the property. This book does not cover Qld tho.

Dean

I have been using a chain saw for more than 30 years cutting firewood for home. I use a Dremel type electric grinder held by hand to sharpen all My saw chains. I never have Them commercially sharpened. I use the biggest diameter stone that will fit in the gullet of the tooth. A battery powered Dremel would make things go faster in the bush. Don't worry excessively about the angles just try to keep them the same.

Thanx for that. A battery dremel is a great idea for honing the teeth in the bush.

I'm starting to think there are as many ways to sharpen a chainsaw as there are chainsaws. Heheee

Greg

These are Black Wattles

W2.jpg

W4.jpg

W5.jpg

W6.jpg

W1.jpg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

These are Black Wattles

Thanks for the pictures. I am not used to seeing seed pods like that on a wattle. This is one of the forms of acacia that does not have leaves on it. The only leaf form that acacia's have is the feathered type. Don't worry I am only showing off my knowledge. I have to do something with it.

The leaf like structure in the picture is a "Phyllode" which is "a winged leaf stalk which functions as a leaf." (Google) Ok I am finished now.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

Dean

I'm sorry. I tend to use terms for my own meaning. My methods, and methodology, are probably sacrilege and heresy to anyone who really knows what they're doing.

I'm reluctant to describe my method of sharpening because it will cause outrage amongst the true-sharpeners .. hee

I sharpen my chef's knife, my axe, my chainsaw, my bush-knife using the exact same method for all. There are three steps,

Sharpening, Honing, and Steeling. Each process is different and does a different job. I will write a post on how I sharpen (but I'm sure I will cop flak ..hehee)

Regarding firewood woodcutting:
I split my billets into three different categories, Tinder, Splits, and Bricks.

I use a few 100grams of Tinder to light the fire, then I build a coal-bed using between 6-8 Splits, and from that point I only place Bricks in the fire. I seat the bricks in the coals.

A Brick has a very low surface-area to mass ratio. Tinder has an extremely high surface-area to mass ratio. The surface area of the firewood, not the mass, is the only part of the firewood that can contact Oxygen. Without Oxygen, wood cannot burn no matter how hot it is. (And in this simple fact lies the secret to the Indian Fire-Walking trick, true)

So Tinder burns instantly (In contact with more Oxygen) and Bricks burn all night (very little contact with Oxygen. So, for me, the control of my fire is all about how much Oxygen I let in and how much surface area is available. You may have noticed in your fireplace that once you have a large coal bed you can place a split or a brick in and it doesn't burn. That's because the coals are hotter and demand all the available oxygen. So the brick sits on the red hot coals but doesn't burn. The brick will only burn as the coal bed decreases, and as it burns it creates new coals ... so a brick can keep your whole house warm all night, no problem.

I cut the tinder with my axe which is razor-sharp. The Splits and Bricks I cut with a block-Splitter ... it never gets sharpened. A Brick is a 200mm diameter billet (usually) with the four cheeks taken off with the block-splitter. A Brick is about 150mm across and 300-400mm long. I cut the quantity of all three types in ratio to their use. Altho guests blow this to buggery. A recent guest went thru 10kg of Tinder and a whole box of firelighters (24) in a two night stay. I could have lit 24 fires with that quantity.

This is Tinder.

B2.jpg

These are Splits

B4.jpg

These are Bricks

B1.jpg

B3.jpg

Greg

Ps: I will write a post on how I sharpen ... you can use a laugh ... Heheee

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Thanks for the pictures. I am not used to seeing seed pods like that on a wattle. This is one of the forms of acacia that does not have leaves on it. The only leaf form that acacia's have is the feathered type. Don't worry I am only showing off my knowledge. I have to do something with it.

The leaf like structure in the picture is a "Phyllode" which is "a winged leaf stalk which functions as a leaf." (Google) Ok I am finished now.

Dean

When I said 'root-shooting' I didn't mean that if you cut it, it shoots again from the roots. I suspect that black wattle spreads out it's roots and new trees grow from the roots. So that a clump of black wattle (20-30 trees) are all connected to the same root system, they share it ... and this is their secret, how they spread so quickly.

Up here they're considered an interim canopy plant, along with many others. That is, a tree falls leaving a gap in the canopy, these plants quickly fill the gap ... but they're only temporary occupants because underneath them the red cedars, the hoops, the Bunyas are all shooting and will eventually dominate. The interim plants provide cover and protection for the true-trees (cedars, hoops, etc) while they're saplings.

(I think )

Greg

I'm reluctant to describe my method of sharpening because it will cause outrage amongst the true-sharpeners .. hee

Probably. Its human nature. I try to present my knowledge in the hope it may help someone and stiil recognise it is up to the individual.

I sharpen my chef's knife, my axe, my chainsaw, my bush-knife using the exact same method for all. There are three steps,

There are different methods for sharpening different blades. A scyth for instance never has metal removed when sharpened. The edge is peened. My idea with sharpening a chainsaw is to get it done, with the serated edge and get back to work. I haven't used an axe or block splitter for many years, but this is mainly due to a medical condition which has reduced my lung capacity to about 65%.

Regarding firewood woodcutting:
I split my billets into three different categories, Tinder, Splits, and Bricks.

I do the same sort of thing, but I just call them kindling, small bits and big bits. Your bricks are the same size as we use in the kitchen range, but in the lounge we use much bigger pieces. I have been using slow combustion heaters for over 30yrs. I find that a single piece of wood does not keep burning as well as 2 or more. The space in between seems to keep the heat going. The lounge fire was stoked at about 10:00 last night and now need more wood. I have to go and do that before it is too late and now I also have to go and start a hydraulic splitter according to a phone call from SWMBO who is at a friends place who just kicked her husband ?) out. He is a useless twit who I have mentioned on this forum before. Some may remember.

Dean